Jump to content

Wikipedia:Simple talk

Change links
From Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Simple talk
Shortcut
This is the place to ask any questions you have about the Simple English Wikipedia. Any general discussions or anything of community interest is also appropriate here.

You might also find an answer on Wikipedia:Useful, a listing of helpful pages.

You may reply to any section below by clicking the "change this page" link, or add a new discussion section to this page. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~). Please add new topics to the bottom of this page.

Please note that old discussions on this page are archived periodically. If you do not find a discussion here, please look in the archives. Note that you should not change the archives, so if something that has been archived needs discussing, please start a new discussion on this page.

Some of the language used on this page can be complicated. This is because it is used by editors to talk to one another, so sometimes we forget. Please leave us a note if you are finding what we are saying too hard to read.

Are you in the right place?

Enabling noindex in article space[change source]

Following on from Wikipedia:Simple talk/Archive 133#Use of QD A4, there was a rough consensus to implement NOINDEX in article space, however it wasn't really considered worth it for the actual impact it would have, especially as it would differ from all other WMF sites. There was a discussion on my talk page, at User talk:Ferien#Why, where the idea of noindexing pages at RfD was bought up again. This time, it was pointed out by Lee Vilenski that enwiki actually has a system whereby pages newer than 90 days are not indexed unless they are patrolled – see w:WP:NOINDEX for how they do things.

Now, we don't want any AfC/NPP-like processes here (as was rejected in Wikipedia:Simple talk/Archive 134#Proposal: Introducing Wikiproject Article for Creation), but we could adjust our patrol system so that only articles that were either patrolled and/or existed for, let's say 10 days, would be indexed. This would allow the time for the notability of articles to be discussed at RfD, while not worrying about the article effectively serving as a free promotion for the person, company etc being discussed at RfD. This would also, hopefully, reduce the misuse of A4 that is still occurring over 3 years on from that original discussion. Thoughts? --Ferien (talk) 16:40, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - As I mentioned before, I'm obviously fully in favour. I think it's worth noting that, I think the technical solution is pretty simple, and just a case of opening a phab ticket for the change to be made. I like the idea of ten days, as it is enough time for an article to go through AfD if suitable. I can see a massive upside to not indexing potentially dangerous articles, and the only downside being a small wait for indexing on good faith articles.
Enwiki also has w:WP:autopatrolled permission. Whilst not part of this discussion, would be easy enough to setup to give a flag to community members who make a lot of articles to bypass the delay (if they care). A potential discussion for a later date if this were to proceed. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: we already have patroller which serves as both our patrol and autopatrol right. --Ferien (talk) 20:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, no problem, didn't realise it was bundled. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:11, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: @Ferien Do we also have page curation tool here? DIVINE 20:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    DIVINE, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to so probably not, we have our own version of Wikipedia:Article wizard, but I don't think that's the same thing? --Ferien (talk) 15:41, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ferien No, it is completely different. It is usually used by patrollers while reviewing pages on English Wikipedia. I thought we also have it here at SEWP, but we don’t have it. I think this tool will be helpful while patrolling the new pages, as patrollers' rights here on SEWP are a combination of both New Page Reviewer (patroller) and Autopatrol. And the tool iss more advanced and has additional features, which will surely help while patrolling. You should take a look once.[1] DIVINE 15:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    DIVINE, oh yeah, I've seen that before. I'm not sure we'd need it here, as our patrol process is a bit more basic than en's, and we might need to customise it more to fit what the community would like here, but that's another discussion. --Ferien (talk) 15:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ferien the only problem is that we can mark as patrolled but can't reverse it in case of a mistake. I don't see any confirmation options before patrolling. DIVINE 16:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think it's that big of a problem. If it happens accidentally, the patroller is responsible for tagging, or taking care of what needs to be done. If unable to do so, they can bring it to this page and seek help.--BRP ever 16:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds good. DIVINE 16:33, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support 10 days.--BRP ever 07:06, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just going to add 'unless marked patrolled' just to be precise haha. BRP ever 15:48, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@BRPever agreed, YGM on this one haha. DIVINE 15:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As a summary:' - There's widespread support for this in the community, I will therefore look into getting it enabled on this Wiki...--Eptalon (talk) 17:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Eptalon That’s good news. By the way, just to let you know, it can be shown immediately if it’s marked as patrolled, like on the English Wikipedia. This way, we will also have an actual use for the patroller tool for reviewing new pages, as it is worth it. Thanks. DIVINE (talk) 13:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I believe this would require the Simple English Wikipedia to use PageTriage, albeit a modified version of it. It's what the English Wikipedia uses to automatically NOINDEX unpatrolled pages for 90 days. I'm not sure if PageTriage supports such modification, or if a fork of it needs to be created first.— *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 04:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stroke page[change source]

Realistically, a reader would only need to know the mnemonic. I think the signs are the modt important thing someone should remember or take away from this article, so it needs to go at the top, and in a way that isnt drown out by all the other information. The user is also sitting there guarding the page reverting most edits Check out https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death At one point the article the editor had the cause of death ranking wrong (and uses future predictions insread of past information). This is cited Those are terrible bulletpoints which could be shortened down a lot. One of the bullet points I edited is the issue, which saw the whole article rolled back. The "jargon" is used in brackets () with links to other wikipedia pages. This article rollback put information back in the article about the circulation which is wrong.

Continued from https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Davey2010?markasread=4436624&markasreadwiki=simplewiki You can see the edits and rollback here: https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stroke&action=history And I think at least a partial rollback to my version should happen to retain information and links to articles. W;ChangingUsername (talk) 18:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This all relates to WCU's edit on the Stroke article - Imho the previous wording was better and the FAST part is duplicated twice and just overall the previous was better, I told the user to come here in case others had differing opinions or may of agreed that their edits were better than what they were replacing, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 19:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I rephrased a little, tis is not just about the U.S.... Eptalon (talk) 21:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its not about that W;ChangingUsername (talk) 21:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
bumping this W;ChangingUsername (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Remember that Wikipedia is not a source of medical advice. The article should inform the reader about stroke and can include FAST asleep part of the article but the reader should be seeking advice from elsewhere. fr33kman 23:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reader should be told by thr government or hospitals how to notice the signs of a stroke. They should be able to recognize the signs and call an ambulance ASAP as permanent damage will be done if they don't and they need to act fast as there is only about 7 minutes for action. Thats what that should know, above all other medical advice in the page (which they dont need to know, because, as you've said, this isn't for medical advice). If this isnt for medical advice, jt should be about spotting the signs, educating people avout that so they can get help from a medical professional and help save peoples lives as a citizen or loved one. W;ChangingUsername (talk) 16:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: In case of a stroke, it is important to recognize it, and to alert emergency services; people have about 7-10 minutes to react. Meaning, there's no time to read a Wikipedia article after the event happened. Also, given that anyone can edit Wikipedia articles, there's no guarantee that what is in the article is correct, or even accurate. For this reason, Wikipedia shouldn't be used for medical advice. People staffing emergency phones are trained to handle such situations, they also have a training to tell people what to do, till emergency services are there. And yes, like with any emergency, the most important thing is to recognize it, and to alert emergency services; being able to tell them what happened. Eptalon (talk) 06:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What i meant is, readers should know the signs, and I think you know that I meant that. And for an event such as stroke if there was an amount of people who'd read the page before they encountered one in their life I would be asking myself something like "what is the one lesson they should take away from this and keep with them" W;ChangingUsername (talk) 10:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, good luck with getting an ambulance within 10 minutes in London, let alone getting seen in the hospital by an appropriate staff member. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that in London they usually manage jt. But you picked the most well funded city in Britan W;ChangingUsername (talk) 05:44, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Purge things in a category?[change source]

Do we have a bot or anything that will purge everything in a category? It would be useful when doing things like changing templates that are causing articles to appear in maintenance categories, and probably for other things. I know Commons has something that purges subcategories in a category, but do we have anything like that here? -- Auntof6 (talk) 05:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have written something, but if there's already another solution, then this should likely be used.. Eptalon (talk) 15:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, when you say "purge" do you mean remove the individual pages from that category, or otherwise? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 23:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: Maybe that wasn't the best term. I was thinking of purging the cache of each item in a category. I sometimes do this manually by doing a null edit on everything in a category, but that is at best tedious and at worst impractical (if there are many entries in the category). That can have the result of removing things from a category that don't belong there. -- Auntof6 (talk) 00:16, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oh, there's a gadget for doing it, rather than via null edits (see w:help:purge). Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:17, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: Yes, I have a purge link on my pages. However, that looks like it's done one page at a time, manually. I'm looking for something where you can give it a category name and it will purge each page in the category for you. -- Auntof6 (talk) 11:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also not sure that that kind of purge would do what I'm looking for. Maybe I'm not explaining this well. -- Auntof6 (talk) 11:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, you can put on the category in question a template, like template:Purge button that looks like the below, is that what you are thinking?
Update this page
Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: If I understand correctly, that would purge the category itself. I'm looking for something to purge each item in the category. -- Auntof6 (talk) 10:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: OK, I just found an example. Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template had 15 articles in it. I did null edits on them which removed all but 2 from the category. Those two were in the category because they were in maintenance categories for June that hadn't been created yet. I created the categories, then did null edits on those two and now the category is empty.
When the fix for a maintenance issue involves doing something that doesn't touch the article, the fix doesn't always remove the article from the category. In this case, the fix was to create the maintenance categories, which didn't require touching the articles. In other cases I've seen, the fix was to take care of a problem in a template.
Am I explaining this any better? -- Auntof6 (talk) 06:55, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. I think this could be done with a userscript, but might be beyond my expertise. It would simply need to take the URLs for all items in a category and add the suffix "?action=purge" and run. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: That's OK. I'm perfectly prepared for the answer to be that we can't do this, but it doesn't hurt to ask. -- Auntof6 (talk) 11:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olivia Rodrigo is now a good article..[change source]

Hello all, there seems to be ovrewhelming support, so I have promoted Olivia Rodrigo to Good Article. Thank you to all who helped... Eptalon (talk) 18:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Idea:Deletion Policy For Clearly AI Generated Content[change source]

Perhaps we could have a QD for something undisputably AI generated (ex.something starting with Here is a draft of the Wikipedia article you requested:, something that's clearly an AI generated essay rather than an article, etc.) can be quickly deleted if it provides little to no value as an encyclopedic article. And maybe could we agree that in general AI generated content (unless it is in fact useful content, which is rather rare) should be deleted once determined to be such (again, provided it is in fact harmful, untrue, not encyclopedic or an article, not in simple english, etc.) Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 23:20, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All those things apply to any article. How is it different if it's AI-generated? -- Auntof6 (talk) 03:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because AI has a way of quickly making plausible sounding non-uncyclopedic nonsense.@Auntof6 Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 20:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We already agreed that AI shouldn't be used here due to the complex language?- FusionSub (Talk page) (Contributions) 05:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like we'd probably spend a bit too much time figuring out if it's AI, or just someone's essay. We can handle it in the same way we already remove unencyclopedic info. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Links to En wiki[change source]

No direct links to en wiki are allowed. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Random question but are there any ways of finding article that link to EN ?, I've searched "[[:en:" but no luck, WPCleaner does have a interwiki linking finder but it's all WikiDictionary or whatever it's called, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 20:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You could probably do it with a query, or maybe AWB.
Might be worth stressing that things like {{ill}} is fine. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

East-West or East—West?[change source]

I just realized that without checking, I accidentally created the article East–West Schism (em dash) without checking to see that the article East-West Schism (hyphen) existed. Which article, therefore, should be merged to be the new article? The en wiki uses the em dash. I am also not familiar with the process in which one merges articles, so how should this be done? Both articles have their own different positive aspects, so I would assume that it would be wise to manually go in an include both parts of both articles into one. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 08:00, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should only have one of the two. Note howevver, that on a non-technical level, the change is mostly visual. Technically, yes, they are different characters. I think the hyphen-version is likely easier to get, though. Eptalon (talk) 20:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per en and per English grammar, I made the hyphen version a redirect of the em version. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 00:25, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think it's really fair to just do it like that, what about revision history? What about attribution? This way of moving pages does not sit right with me (I believe it is wrong), if I am being honest… Dream Indigo 10:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably needs a histmerge. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:26, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski I agree Dream Indigo 15:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notability about an article[change source]

A new article, Toilet Tower Defense, was made, and I'm not sure whether to nominate this for deletion or not. I cannot find any sources that are reliable and although Fandom has info about it, I highly doubt it's a reliable source due to its wiki nature. Cyclonical (talk) 10:31, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you lose nothing by nominating for regular deletion. It allows the community to discuss.... Eptalon (talk) 10:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was a little unsure about it so just wanted to make sure, but I'll go ahead and add it to RfD for discussion. Cyclonical (talk) 10:46, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Depression Ten (2005) demoted..[change source]

Hello, I have demoted Tropical Depression Ten (2005), it was a very good article, but there are various issues, amongst others a merge proposal. I have have therefore demoted it to reguilar article. Feel free to suggest again, when the issues are fixed. Eptalon (talk) 23:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slavery, proposed article demotion[change source]

Slavery has been proposed for article demotion here MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 02:59, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I left saome comments; likely though, fixing/improving this will take several people working together, using several weekends. As a result the article may double or triple in size. The EnWP article is 8 times the size of our artcle. Big toppic, difficult one, once you dive in. Eptalon (talk) 10:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lua module error[change source]

Hi, So I copied the infobox from en:2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash to here however the map section now says

"Lua error in Module:Mapframe at line 384: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'lat_d' (a nil value)."

I've copypasted en:Module:Mapframe but it's already uptodate so didn't know if anyone could come to the rescue and fix this issue as I don't understand modules, Thanks, Warm Regards, –Davey2010Talk 17:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See if it works now - I tried changing the case (Wikidatacoord --> WikidataCoord). I was fighting with a Lua error recently myself :) Antandrus (talk) 18:02, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Antandrus You are amazing thanks so much! - yep the error's gone and the map now shows, Thank you again I greatly appreciate your help :), Thanks, Warm Regards, –Davey2010Talk 19:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simple suggestions[change source]

Hey all. I'm doing the frog genus Oophaga. What's a good Simple English phrase for "unfertilized egg"? I'm going with "egg that will not hatch" for now, but it's giving me mega we-can-do-better vibes. Frogs in the genus Oophaga return to the tiny pools where their tadpoles swim and lay an unfertilized egg for the tadpoles to eat. Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about 'lay eggs for the tadpoles to eat'? And later explain that the eggs used for spawning are fertilized? Eptalon (talk) 18:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unsure how to revert[change source]

I'm seeing some gross vandalism on Toontown Online that I don't even want to repeat from "Lua error in package.lua at line 80" and am honestly not sure how to revert it. This isn't really my expertise. - MourningRainfall 🐺🇨🇦 (talk) 07:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

nvm - MourningRainfall 🐺🇨🇦 (talk) 08:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MourningRainfall If that happens again, try purging the cache as it has worked in the past for many users.- FusionSub (Talk page) (Contributions) 08:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, will do. Thanks. - MourningRainfall 🐺🇨🇦 (talk) 08:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Announcing the first Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee[change source]

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello,

The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote results. We are following up with the results of the first Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) election.

We are pleased to announce the following individuals as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a two-year term:

  • North America (USA and Canada)
    • –
  • Northern and Western Europe
  • Latin America and Caribbean
    • –
  • Central and East Europe (CEE)
    • —
  • Sub-Saharan Africa
    • –
  • Middle East and North Africa
  • East, South East Asia and Pacific (ESEAP)
  • South Asia
    • –

The following individuals are elected to be community-at-large members of the U4C, fulfilling a one-year term:

Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.

Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. Follow their work on Meta-wiki.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 08:15, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some suggestions for beginners[change source]

Hello everybody! I have a plan to rewrite some articles from Standard English Wikipedia to Simple English Wikipedia. I’m a bit worried about the copyrights because I’m using the content, images, and sources from the English Wikipedia article, just simplifying the words. Do you have any suggestions for me? Thank you very much! Hanoifun (talk) 09:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hanoifun One thing I'll recommend is linking to the EN revision rewritten on the article's talk page to avoid any attribution. An easy way to do this is by using Template:Translated page.- FusionSub (Talk page) (Contributions) 09:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can also use Special:ContentTranslation, with English as a source for Simple English. Everything will be covered, from attribution to reusing citations, etc. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 09:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome, @Hanoifun. You might like to look at this list I maintain of ways that Simple English Wikipedia is different from other Wikipedias. The list is not a policy or guideline, but it links to some relevant policies and guidelines. If you have any questions about the list or anything on it, leave a message on my talk page. -- Auntof6 (talk) 15:16, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Simple_talk&oldid=9586553"