Talk:Let's Play

May 2012

Why does this page not mention Slowbeef, the one who invented Let's Plays? Or better yet, the YouTube channel Retsupurae? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.52.32 (talk) 03:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Because nobody has added it yet supported by reliable secondary references, especially for claims such as "invented Let's Plays". The YouTube channel would be a primary reference. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 10:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

While he was one of the first Let's Players, Slowbeef didn't invent Let's Plays. His earliest LP on the archive was started November 3, 2006. The earliest LP on the archive is Final Fantasy VI by Tuckfard — Preceding unsigned comment added by MGN001 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Slowbeef himself doesn't claim to have invented it, only that he was one of the first people to use the commentary over videos format which is now standard. The earliest LPs were either screenshots, or mixed media (screenshots with occasional videos, often without voiced commentary). --86.160.43.229 (talk) 12:12, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Regardless, this needs a reliable, secondary reference. Especially, if he is one of the several, because we need to establish why he in particular should be mentioned and not others. Which, again, is determined by independent sources. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 15:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I'm obviously not an independent resource, but this is verifiable on the Something Awful forums, if you have Archive Access. Even if I'm omitted from it, the trend absolutely didn't start on YouTube, and SA deserves the credit. I can't find the "First" Let's Play (which is allegedly, Oregon Trail, done by an unknown member of the forums), but the first "video LP" is here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2261297&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2. Since Archives access costs money, this is a screenshot I've uploaded: http://imgur.com/HxCJb - The date of posting is Jan 5, 2007 - there shouldn't be any earlier ones. The URL linked in the screenshot is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA1kIBwGhrk&feature=gv - please note this was originally hosted on Google Video, which is since defunct and is now pointing at the original video's YouTube migration. Anyway, I get credit for "inventing" them in general (including screenshot ones) since I wrote a humorous "strategy guide" in 2004 which some people liken to to Let's Play, but I have no idea if that would have predated Oregon Trail or if it "counts" as a Let's Play. In either case, I didn't coin the term. Is this helpful? Slowbeef (talk) 22:09, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

The MackNMesh video is not considered a Let's Play. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.141.171 (talk) 02:22, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

The Why

Where is a description of "Why people make/view LPs"?

Don't need a massive description, but a little depth would serve the non-gamer readers of this page.

e.g: "People make them to entertain/for the money/ad revenue and watch them to be entertained (and likely because the game is of mild interest to the viewer, making any spoilers a non-issue). Often the games lacking in quality make for comedy gold with the better LP hosts." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.127.25 (talk) 20:19, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

We need reliable sources (such as these) to back up such section and all similar to above statements, otherwise it will be original research and unsuitable for inclusion. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:37, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Origin

Stated on the Rooster Teeth podcast (multiple times), Geoff Ramsey came up with the term after using "Live Commentary" for the longest time. Other threads then started using it after the first "Let's Play" usage. Video64Games (talk) 23:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Stated by whom? Can you link to or cite the actual podcasts and times, with participating parties mentioned? Geoff Ramsey is part of Rooster Teeth himself, so the podcast most likely cannot be used to support this (see WP:PRIMARY, we need secondary sources). —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 10:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Gavin and Jack mentioned it very quickly in... I think Podcast 210. They said that they called it "live commentary" and then "Let's Play" after a livestream. Video64Games (talk) 21:04, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

SA info removed

The citation for this statement is a site created by someone from the SA site. Of course they want to say they created it. It's a rather self-serving citation, and a cursory google search turns up this [1] forum from 2005 which suspiciously looks like a Let's Play to me. Either way, for that kind of claim, some independent verification should be required.--114.205.84.126 (talk) 09:46, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Does this looks "suspiciously" like a Let's Play to you? http://web.archive.org/web/20120117203947/http://slowbeef.com/MG2 Jan. 2004. Either way, SA coined the term, and started the trend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.141.171 (talk) 21:45, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Removed some stuff

Removed Smosh and Toby because they are just in it to make money, and have crap LP's anyway. Discuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.120.232 (talk) 23:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, that's not a reason to remove them (And the fact they are in it for the money supports the copyright issues described afterwards). And no, we're not here to rate on quality of LPs. --MASEM (t) 02:59, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Let's Plays not actually called "Let Us Play"

Adding citation needed to the claim that Let's Plays were at one point called Let Us Plays. I believe whoever wrote this got it from the Slowbeef post in references, but if so it's a misunderstanding of that source. Slowbeef is making a distinction between (older) interactive let's plays where viewers influenced the gameplay and (newer) non-interactive let's plays where viewers have little influence on gameplay and instead watch. He does not mean (or say) that early let's plays were literally named "Let Us Play <game title>" or that let's plays have ever been popularly called "let us plays."

Xxiggy (talk) 10:35, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Origin of "Let's Plays"

We need to be clear here: there is the idea of screenshot gallerys/videos that are specifically called "Let's Plays" - that term and approach came from Something Awful. It should be clear that before SA did "Let's Plays" there were people recording themselves playing games and just posting videos (even before the claimed Mack & Mesh), but they were not called "Let's Plays" or necessary had the elements of what Let's Play videos (namely commentary alongside gameplay). It's just that the format jelled with the SA forums, and that's what we can source. --MASEM (t) 15:11, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I have provided a book source that affirms Let's Plays came out of SA, even if there were similar videos before that point. --MASEM (t) 15:42, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Please note for those trying to include the Mack and Mesh video as the first , you need a source that says it was first. You can't just link to the video and claim it was first, because that's original research. You also need to find a source that is counter to the current understanding that Lets Plays started at SA. I had put langauge that acknowledged that there were other similar things before SA's Lets Play, but the actual formalization of the concept is clearly from SA. Also note that these edits scream of conflict-of-interest here without other source backing. --MASEM (t) 18:12, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Your sources are correct, the M_wikifacts sources are not. They are blogs/forums and primary sources, without any secondary sources being brought up. So no reliable sources at all. Not to mention that its WP:OR, it does not matter how evident something is. We still need secondary sources. NathanWubs (talk) 21:16, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

This shows the 'Mesh Does' series - from a legitimate, reputable source - in a still downloadable form clearly dated 30th September 2004 (http://www.gamefront.com/files/3648231/Mesh_Does_Doom_Videos). I have double checked that this download still works, the vids are in a .zip file and vid4.wmv at the 1m52s shows a 'facecam' on the top left-hand of the screen and the gameplay making up the rest of the screen. The criteria that appears to have been decided - commentary besides gameplay - is entirely met if you are to follow that link, download the zip file containing the videos and watch the said videos. It looks the EXACT same as many of 'Let's Play' videos even today. I do not see how this can be argued. The first couple of 'Mesh Does' videos were just reactions, but from the fourth video onwards, there is clearly commentary over gameplay in a picture-in-picture format. The 'Mesh Does' video fits this criteria. The SA videos are, very clearly, not the first examples of the format. They are merely the first example of the name being applied to the format. That, of course, should be cited; but, I also see no reason for the 'Mesh does'/Mack and Mesh series to be erased from the page since it appears to be the earliest example of this format in action.

Some more examples of posts regarding 'Mesh Does' clearly dated 2004: NSFW website due to some advertising sidebars!!>>> http://muchosucko.com/3659/Mesh-Does-Doom (Full video, dated 2004, in action under the 'Mesh Does' banner if you skip the first couple of minutes. The uploader is notably 'Yak', the owner of aforementioned NSFW website and also an infamous 4chan board member) http://www.fileplanet.com/144660/140000/fileinfo/Mesh-Does-DOOM-3-Video-Pack- (These 3 videos can, arguably, be discounted from the 'Let's Play' format as it is just footage of Mesh spliced together with footage of him filmed from a shakeycam - yet they are important in the context. The above video is the next in the series, chronologically, and very clearly shows it is from the same timeframe and is the same person) http://forums.pcformat.co.za/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6701 (Mentions how one of the 'Mesh does' videos was on a PC Gamer magazine disc - I'm sure this can be tracked down for further evidence should this not be enough) http://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?26932-Doom-III-Re-actions http://hlfallout.net/topic/22747-mesh-does-hl2/ (Talking about 'Mesh does' Half-Life 2 which also followed the 'Mesh does' Doom III series in 2004) http://www.neskimoforums.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1736 http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/212599 http://www.valvetime.net/threads/mesh-does-ravenholm.58839/ http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21828

Lastly, from the Wikipedia page: A Let's Play (often abbreviated to "LP") is a series of screenshots or a recorded video documenting a playthrough of a video game, usually including commentary by the gamer.[1] An LP differs from a walkthrough or strategy guide by focusing on an individual's subjective experience with the game, often with humorous, irreverent, or even critical commentary from the gamer, rather than being an objective source of information on how to progress through the game

1) The video is recorded - gameplay and reactions together on screen simultaneously 2) It documents a playthrough of a video game 3) It includes commentary from Mesh 4) Subjective experience (indeed, rather than commenting on the graphics he is struggling to get back into his own skin after every fright) 5) Humorous (Very, if we are to go on the above links to forum posts) 6) Irreverent ("There you are...come on... shut up" when shooting a monster) 7) Critical ("Carmack I hate you" in reference to former Id Software programmer John Carmack) 8) Features no tips on how to get through the game; in fact, it turns out being rather the opposite

The criteria has been, very clearly, met. I do not see how there is any dispute here.