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What's up with Kevin Spacey's recent mainstream media appearances?
So I saw Kevin was on Piers Morgan, which I wrote off. But now he's recently been on the Lex Fridman podcast along with a ton of other pretty large media (the telegraph interview). In the interviews they treat Kevin like he's completely innocent because he was "acquitted."
Did I miss something?
Lex interview: https://youtu.be/XJTMQtE-MIo?si=JQPOlOB20eGnjrdP
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Answer: Kevin Spacey believes enough time has passed between the allegations against him and the “timeout” he had from Hollywood to start his comeback tour. He appears to be kicking off his tour with the more conservative or MAGA audiences that cater to the idea that cancel culture is ruining the world. These audiences may view Spacey as someone who was “cancelled” due to these allegations and may be more willing to be sympathetic to supporting him and his future career endeavors.
Appealing to a Conservative audience is an interesting choice seeing that he was accused of sexually assaulting a man and his original response to the allegations was to say he didn't remember then come out as gay.
I'm assuming he's hoping that people just don't mention or forget that he's gay.
I’m think the cancel culture part of it will override the rest. I do believe he is of the plan to start working again with a project or two lined up. At the very least he is getting his name in the news again which will generate interest in him whether good or bad.
It's kind of like when people point out that Donald Trump is divorced, sleeps with a porn star, etc. The "Christian/family values" of ultra conservatives aren't just that they think nuclear families are good and that anything else is bad. They want a system of social morality where they're at the top, and everyone else is placed unquestionably at the bottom. If someone like Trump/Spacey/etc. is able to put the people they dislike in their place and make them feel superior to these people, that's all they need. Their figureheads don't need any kind of purity test, because his base doesn't want to abide by any actual moral purity either. It really is a matter of dragging everyone else down, just to be on top
Something funny that I also want to add, Obama was considered absolutely un-electable by them due to allegedly being "muslim" which of course in their eyes is horrific as muslims don't represent what they believe to be American values lmao
I agree with you almost entirely. The one issue though is that they’re not forgiving of being gay or trans or queer in some way. Had Spacey sexually assaulted women and girls, they’d welcome him back. But because it was boys and men, that’s beyond the pale and he’ll never get their acceptance.
Exactly. It's important to remember that conservatives aren't united by ideas of how things should be, they unite around issues where they agree something shouldn't be. The issue at hand is all that matters. So someone could be everything that the conservatives stand against, but if they've got something that can be used to push an issue, they have no problem co-opting them. If a drag queen up in the stars and stripes had had their shoe stopped because they were using it to advocate for teachers to be armed because that's what Jesus wanted, then they'd be complaining about cancel culture and woke anti-second ammenent madness.
Conservatives love tokens. Because they can’t be racist if this black guy is a Republican, and they can’t hate gays if this gay dude votes for Trump!
I think they don’t hate gay people as much as they hate the idea of gay people. They hate overtly gay things like gender nonconformity, rainbows, fashion, and all the other stereotypes. I think Kevin Spacey has presented himself as a clean cut straight guy wearing a suit so much on screen that he would get a pass.
Or as The Onion put it in the article Should Gays Be Allowed To Adopt?
The Log Cabin Republicans have made it pretty clear that isn't the case. Sure, they might prefer tidy gays over flamboyant queens, but the minute they run out of flamboyant queens to scapegoat for all of America's problems, they'll turn their attention on those insidious homosexuals who were pretending to be just like us the whole time.
They'll always find an other to turn their attention to. The success of modern conservatism is built on it.
I think those homophobes who are right wing are able to strategise very well. They understand that there are degrees to what they want to achieve, which is the denormalisation of anything not oriented around the traditional family, and they are willing to strategically ally with anyone who gets them closer to that goal. They will ally with gay people against trans rights, for example, or with gay people who oppose the normalisation of homosexuality in society, or with gay people who support Trump, and so on. Ultimately they are a minority and they will only be able to impose their intolerance on society by degrees, and by temporary alliances with people who will ultimately rue their cooperation if they have their way.
Most of them leading the charge probably don't even care. The LGBTQ+ community is a marginalized community they can make them an enemy because they are too small to truly fight back and win but prominent enough to be seen and hated.
Spacey should line himself up to act in the next Kirk Cameron movie
And what an impressive pantheon he'd be joining. He might even get to work with KEVIN SORBO!
He might give Kelsey Grammer a run for his money if there's a live-action Simpsons film and they need a Sideshow Bob.
Reminds me of an interview recently of David Pakman and GOP candidate Royce White when he tried pulling the race card and ends up going into his own racist meltdown mode. Love seeing conservatives losing their shit when called out on their hypocrisy.
They also love anyone "Hollywood".
I've noticed a trend in the "Hollywood" celebs that are maga supporters: they're mostly has beens
You're making the mistake of these right wing people mean what they say.
they have goals and will enable anyone they can to do it.
Conservative audiences happily forget their own morals as long as you win over the progressives. Trump has insulted PoWs, dodged the draft, cheated on his wife multiple times, and gets basic Christian tenets wrong, yet his fanbase just gets stronger the more insults progressives. Even when it was rumoured that he shit his pants in court, they started wearing shirts claiming 'real men wear diapers'.
A lot of people in the replies have their theories but the truth is the polling shows that your average American conservative doesn't really inherently have an issue with gay people nowadays. That was more of a Christian conservatism thing, which obviously took a backseat when they all got behind possibly the least Christian president in US history.
The big lgbtq things they care about these days is the fear of kids being exposed to "trans ideology" and grooming, the latter of which could actually be an issue with Spacey.
Conservatives cater to fuck the left. They don't really have an opinion on anything else. Have you ever seen them make much sense of anything? "Oh you hate liberals? And you're gay? That's ok! You can hate gays and liberals with us!"
It's still 2024, "anti gay" isn't nearly as big a part of conservatism as it was 30 years ago.
They love having someone from "the other side" that is willing to spout their rhetoric. It gives them someone they can point to and say, "See? We're not homophobic!" or "See? Even The Gays (tm) agree with us." Even if it's just one person.
Its not about principals. Its about social groups. The narrative will sway as the social groups running it demand it to be.
Conservatives are quick to make friends with the enemy of their enemy. They figure they’ll dump them off when their most immediate threat has been dealt with. In the meantime, they’ll pay them little or no respect (see Ben Shapiro telling Dave Rubin to his face that he wouldn’t attend his wedding or celebrate his anniversary, which unfortunately I could not find a clip of).
They supposedly hate sex traffickers and groomers until the left hates a particular trafficker and groomer, all of a sudden they love that person.
Did he go back in the closet, then?
Accused of sexually assaulting a BOY, not a man. The alleged victim was under 18
It’s a feature of conservatism that you can have a quality that conservatives hate like being gay but can still be a conservative as long as you’re willing to hate some of the other people conservatives hate. That’s how we have black conservatives, gay conservatives, conservatives that used to be on welfare, immigrant conservatives, trans conservatives, etc. These conservatives often have empathy and understanding for people in their own situation, they just hate the people that aren’t like themselves.
Its not about principals. Its about social groups. The narrative will sway as the social groups running it demand it to be.
A lot of conservatives love an Uncle Tom or token ally though, it allows them to do their two favorite pastimes: troll the libs, and have a black(or in this case gay) friend while they promote bigotted positions like "dont say gay."
Think Milo Yiannopoulos before he became too indefensible or Diamond and Silk.
He could also get conservatives like my parents who have chilled out some after having a kid come out as gay.
Oh, they won't forget he's gay. Quite the opposite. They'll hold this up as an example of how The Woke are so extreme that they'll even go after a gay man - 'one of their own'.
I think there's a decent amount of maga people that will welcome his homosexuality as if it would give them the false appearance of inclusivity. Fascists love token characters as long as their potentially useful, regardless of the incongruity with their political/social beliefs - in fact hypocrisy for the same of further your cause is a pretty core tennent of right wing ideology
They love gay conservatives for the same reason they love black conservatives. They use them as "evidence" that they're not bigots.
He was never convicted of anything and Reddit loves to act like they know things. He's just an easy targets thanks to the tabloids.
To add some context to the timing part of this. Spacey has faced several legal challenges related to sexual assault since the accusations first went public in 2017.
In more recent years however, Spacey has successfully rebuffed most of these legal challenges.
In 2019, criminal charges against him in cape cod were dropped following the death of the individual who made said accusations.
In 2020 a claim brought by another anonymous individual was dropped due to their unwillingness to identify themselves.
Anthony Rapp claim against Spacey ended up with Spacey being found non liable and also resulted in Rapp being ordered to pay Spacey’s damages instead. That was in 2020 also. (The same trial in fact)
In 2023 a trail in the uk against Spacey resulted in several charges against him dropped, whilst he was found not guilty on several others.
I suspect Spacey’s reemergence isn’t just that time has passed since the initial accusation, but that he now has more free time, and less legal worries, to pursue a more public persona once more.
Spacey also owes 30 million to the House of Cards production company because he was found to have broken their sexual harassment clauses leading to his expulsion from the show and incurring major damages.
So he can pretend like he was fully acquitted but there is ample proof that he is the type to cross sexual boundaries with people working on set.
He also has on again off again apologized for things he's done depending on how likely he felt he'd end up charged. After acquittal he's walked all that back pretty much.
$1m. Not $30m. As of this February.
https://deadline.com/2024/02/kevin-spacey-loses-arbitration-house-of-cards-mrc-1234878957/
I didn’t know about this until your comment prompted me to look it up
Oh why is he crying about being broke due to his legal debts - according to your sources MRC dropped their request from $31 million to $1 million and his other defense fees were like $3 million.
I get it, $4 million isn't nothing - but that's like season one of House of Cards. He's made tens of millions otherwise. Methinks it is considerably more due to his spending habits and not "legal woes"
Absolutely. Tbh I imagine the $30 million bill like makes him more desperate to get back into work, especially high paying. Those other cases going his way more recently however bolster his ability to do that. In addition the house of cards suit relates to an incident from 2012 involve a “rude comment and gesture” and Spacey was allowed to return to work after completing training.
Basically it’s vague enough that it dulls the effect of negative sentiment, and the fact that he was able to get away with it original (only after some training) probably makes him think that it isn’t enough to derail him permanently.
He hasn’t just rebuffed many of the accusations, his defense team really made some of the accusers look bad.
These two aren't suspicious at all.
I enjoy your need for conspiracies at every turn.
You must be with them! /dundundunnnn
I honestly believe it's a coincidence and was implying it was a conspiracy for the memes.
I'm of the belief that anybody can be reformed. Racists can become less racist. Abusers can get therapy and come to terms with the part of themselves that was abusive. Compulsions can be overcome, suppressed, and even replaced.
If Spacey's "comeback" tour was more of an apology tour than a "I told you I didn't do anything wrong and you didn't believe me" tour, I'd be a lot more willing to listen.
Is it possible that this was an elaborate and carefully-orchestrated "hit job" against him to destroy his career? Well, sure, in the vast realm of possibility, I suppose it could actually be. But who would want to take down Spacey? Who was he pissing off that they needed to pay a bunch of people to "pretend" to be his past victims? There's flat-earthers out there who would look at that and go, "Come on, Kev, let's be realistic here."
Abuse allegations -- especially old ones -- are extremely difficult to prove even in civil litigation. I don't think any of us are surprised that most of these allegations couldn't hold up in court. That doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
And, again, all he has to do is own it. I'm not a publicist, but -- just off the top of my head -- I could write an apology that 90% of the viewing public would accept.
"I'm embarrassed by my past behavior. I regret that my personal insecurities about being a closeted gay man manifested themselves in extremely inappropriate ways. I wouldn't blame any of you if you never wanted to buy a ticket to see me do anything ever again. I've spent a lot of time examining myself and working on myself, and I feel like I can look myself in the mirror again. And I will say that acting is the thing that -- through all of my other difficulties -- has always been my joy. If you'd be willing to forgive a terribly flawed but also terribly remorseful old actor, I would love to continue to share my art with you."
He doesn't even have to mean it. He's a good actor: we'll probably buy it.
But if he's going to try to blame and shame us for believing he did something that he got away with, he's just not going to find much sympathy.
I don't disagree with this as a whole, but is Lex Fridman considered right wing/conservative/MAGA?
Comment deleted by user
I think Lex is pretty smart, but then he always goes on these naive soliloquies about love and how if he could just get two people in the same room together, like Putin and Zelenskyy, they could just talk through all of their problems. He goes from intelligent MIT researcher to naive 8 year old.
Yeah, Lex's interviews with Kushner and Netanyahu made my blood boil, at points. They're so softball. I personally found it stunning how Kushner spun the tale saying he ended the Isreal/Palestine conflict, and Lex just nodded like it was all totally true. If this was a discussion about aliens, Lex is prodding and insightful, he's thinking. But get a conservative politician in there, and it's like an informercial.
I would give my left arm to hear someone really press Kushner on his relationship with Saudi leadership, and the ethics of using your position in government for personal gain. It's hard to find a recent example of worse behavior, than the two billion dollars KSA gave to Kushner to manage. Even if you believed every random conspiracy about Hunter Biden, it adds up to like 1% of the money the Saudi's gave to Kushner. But I suspect such questions are not allowed.
At worst, yes, at best he's at least naïve.
I think he is considered conservative leaning. I guess I was thinking more the audience that Spacey seems to be attempting to reach.
He’s not. He interviews pretty much anybody but on Reddit if you interview anyone that’s controversial you’re pretty much a Nazi sympathizer.
I definitely wouldn't even call him right wing.
Maybe a centrist? He's just a science nerd that talks about stuff
The jump to the crazy right is becoming a pattern with 'cancelled' celebrities and those facing accusations. Russell brand being another one
Yeah, he's not getting any younger and I'm sure he wants to work and be thought of as a "beloved actor" again. Regardless of the outcomes of these trials (found not liable in the Anthony Rapp case, which is what set all the rest of the accusations in motion), I'm not sure he deserves a second chance. He admits to being handsy with men on his sets and that alone kinda makes him a creep. He also seems to have a huge ego and hasn't really been sincerely apologetic for anything.
I watched Spacey Unmasked and after listening to his victims and his own brother, I’m convinced he is an actual psychopath.
Yeah his house of cards character was legit him irl as far as I can tell.
He did that kinda apology / you’ve missed me social media post a few years ago and it was hilariously uncomfortably hinged. Like some I think you should leave irl stuff
[Dave Holmes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Holmes_(actor) told a story that is both confirms he's probably a psychopath and is also kinda hilarious.
Dave used to know Spacey's personal assistant who, although straight, looked "exactly like the kind of guy Kevin Spacey would hire as a personal assistant".
Anyway, they got invited to a pre-screening of "Saving Private Ryan" and during the D-Day scene Kevin took off his jacket and put it in his lap. No big deal he was probably hot, right? Nope, he was using it as cover while he masturbated.
Years later Dave meets another Spacey personal assistant. Dave asks assistant #2 about the SPR incident and wether he thought it actually happened. #2 says, "I doubt it. Kevin has too much respect for the cinema."
In other words, "Oh, I can totally see Kevin masturbating in public next to his good-looking assistant. But not during a Spielberg film!"
Oh that story made it into the documentary
Yeah, I have a buddy who worked on The Shipping News who was felt up by Spacey on set.
From the tone of the interviews he's given, he seems to think that this behavior is normal and all in good fun.
Crazy how the side of “conservative values” so often engages in sexual assault or supports (even venerates) those who do.
He's not wrong about time healing perceptions. People have given plenty of positive attention including starring roles in TV shows to convicted rapist Mike Tyson.
The conservatives seem to be generally ok with pedophiles as long as they're conservative too
So, a conman rapist realized he could manipulate the biggest collection of idiots and losers in America? I’m getting deja vu lol
neither Piers Morgan nor Lex Friedman are MAGA
Piers Morgan is a male centric douche canoe and I think that draws a certain audience.
They both absolutely are.
Lex legitimizes maga by platforming people like Carlson and Musk
I hate this kind of thinking so much. I’d much rather let controversial people speak and judge their opinions myself than have them silenced so the “right people” can tell me what to think.
I agree, but I'd also like to see him push back a little more with some of his guests.
Eh, not if the host just wants to jerk them off. If they want to sit down with an actual journalist and answer actual questions, all good.
You want it to be one way, but it's the other. There are piles of research and evidence on deplatforming and the fact is, it just works. Every time someone with terrible views get a chance to reach a wide audience, they gain fans. They never lose them. Maybe you, oh enlightened one, knows how to sort through the good and the bad, but first of all, is that really how you want to spend your time? Hearing out bad actors just to reconfirm to yourself that you Know What's Good? I mean live your life how you want I guess, I personally don't have time for that but no judgement. But more importantly, second of all, regular folk out there aren't like you. They CAN be convinced. Do you think fans of bad actors just appear out of nowhere? No, they were advertised to through these platforming opportunities. And they told a friend, who told a friend. It spreads. And fans don't back away, bad actors don't have a line they can cross. Unless that line is some kind of betrayal, like if Alex Jones were to legitimately apologize then his fanbase would say "wow the deep state got to him, I'm out."
Bad actors use platforms to grow a fanbase, and with that fanbase comes two things: legitimacy and money. Legitmacy grows when you have numbers to back you up. A conspiracy grifter with 17 YouTube followers is a crackpot, but a conspiracy grifter with 170,000 followers is a Personality we can put on TV to get eyeballs on our ads. And that exposure gets them money because fans sometimes give it to them. And the bigger viewership numbers they get on their social platforms gets them more ad revenue. Then you do a tour, you sell a ghost-written book, you produce a movie about cancel culture and DEI, all of a sudden you're a millionaire. And millionaires don't tend to wait for platforming opportunities, they can buy their way in, so the cycle can continue. Then you end up with Alex Jones ruining the lives of families of Sandy Hook victims, or Milo poisoning the discourse in conservative media circles, or Tucker Carlson shuttling great replacement theory from online weirdos to national political figures.
Not to mention, a lot of far right or toxic figures/movements, if you let them get a foot in the door, they'll stay inside with violence. Your wisen open minded approach is noble until they come after you.
So again, deplatforming works. You kick these guys off platforms, the money dries up, the grift disappears, public discourse has a chance to breathe and actual experts and reasonable actors have a chance to speak. You wanna judge opinions yourself? Play an RPG. You wanna live in a society? Advocate for deplatforming bad actors, otherwise take your opinion and just convert it into $10 for their Patreon, it's the same value.
I get the impression his preference would be to stay out of the news longer, but he's in a shit ton of debt and his house in Baltimore is in foreclosure and being auctioned.
I'm assuming this is him testing the waters on how to see how much tolerance there is for him in the entertainment world right now, or generate revenue off of the drama with a book deal or something.
He knows they don't care if he fondles kids as long as he adopts anti-vaxx, anti-abortion, conspiracy bullshit, and hate for Democrats into his life. Right?
Being acquitted in a court of law absolutely does not mean you didn't do anything wrong, Spacey and commentators are deliberately conflating this because it's convenient to their agenda.
see: OJ Simpson
Absolutely.
But, conversely, being accused of "something" by "somebody" doesn't mean you did anything wrong.
This is the sad reality.
Sure. In this case, multiple specific people made similar, consistent accusations about specific behaviors by Kevin Spacey, but in general, yeah, not every accusation is valid.
That's quite painful, considering I thought he saw HoC as an allegory for Trumpism at some point. IIRC he explicitly uses populist tactics.
That's a stretch, no? House of Cards came out in 2013, before Trump ever was considered to be a serious candidate. Not to mention that it was based on a 1990 British TV series, itself based on a 1989 novel.
In terms its subject, House of Cards focused on someone using behind-the scenes political scheming to control and wield power in Congress that would eventually lead to securing a VP nomination - that seems much more evocative of someone like LBJ rather than an outspoken media personality and brash political outsider like Trump.
I guess I wasn’t trying to make it politics perse. I just think he will find a more forgiving audience in the things he is participating in.
I know it is because of hypocrisy and other things, but aren't conservative more cancel culture prone than anyone else? I know they project this whole woke/cancel culture victimhood all the time, but they are the only ones that have loyalty requirements and cancel everyone not following them.
Not sure why you think Lex's podcast has a conservative or Maga audience.
Have you seen the guests he decides to have on? That’s the tell. You can see in the sub comments the community is a stones throw from qanon conspiracy theorist. Whatever good the pod does is outweighed by propping up shit people like Spacey, Musk, Carlson, or Bibi. None of those shit wipe psychos need anymore of a platform than they already have - they should not be elevated. They should, if anything, shammed and forgotten if at all possible (I get Bibi is a whole other issue)
I think Spacey is really the only one who didn't exactly have a major platform going already. Like, are you really saying that having Tucker Carlson on was platforming him? He is a platform. Same with Musk and Bibi. You're acting like these are fringe people and without appearing on the podcast, they wouldn't be able to spread whatever message they want to. They're some of the most capable people to spread their message in existence.
They aren't being propped up by a podcast, that's just ridiculous.
I guess you just haven't looked at the other guests he's had on? How is Destiny MAGA? How is Michael Malice MAGA? George Hotz? Jimmy Wales?
You just cherry picked a small number of guests and ignored all the apolitical guests and the left-leaning ones.
I agree that he has legit guests at times, but think about the decision process to have someone like Carlson on - ask yourself why.
That’s the show don’t tell about his show and the audience he’s pandering too - it’s more than a disservice or disingenuous bc what is the value in propagating a conspiracy theorist? You can tell by the sub comments who the audience is - it’s not a secret
The legit guests appear to provide cover, like ur response serves, rather than grappling with the very real concerns and issues to have someone like Carlson on to spew bullshit
Welcome to reddit. Anything right of MSNBC is maga
Lex has platformed people like Spacey, Musk, Carlson, Bibi. What do you call that? Sure as shit ain’t center, center right, those people are all off the edge of reason and sanity
You realize that if you're center (not saying that Lex is) you'd naturally have to platform people both left and right?
This is a disingenuous answer. His current media tour comes off the back of his multiple court cases all resulting in him being found innocent or some variation thereof. His lawyers even proved that various incidents that he was accused of were lies.
The point of this tour, for me at least, is to discuss whether or not people believe in due process. None of us know whether he's guilty or innocent, we weren't there when these incidents are alleged to have taken place. That's what the courts are for, and every court he went to did not convict him of any crime.
He also wants to get back to work and earn a living again in a career he spent a lifetime building. Whether or not that happens, who knows, he's still radioactive and I can't imagine any major studios wanting to take a risk on him.
people are never found innocent. They’re found not guilty. Theres a difference.
due process is in effect. Spacey is a free man because he’s been convicted of nothing. Don’t conflate consumers deciding that they don’t want to financially support someone that they believe is distasteful with due process.
he was found to owe the House of Cards production company $30m (later reduced to $1m) for sexual misconduct on set.
I’m a separate the art from an artist person, so I personally don’t care if he did whatever. But it’s rational for people to conclude that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. If multiple disconnected people are accusing him, that’s not nothing.
Also probably worthwhile stating that there are degrees of separating tbe art from the artist.
Not a fan of Spacey the person, but a fan of Spacey the actor.
Where as Ian Watkins (former lead singer of the dissolved band Lostprophets) I don't care for him as a person or a musician simply because of him as a person.
TIL lex Friedman caters to a MAGA audience.
Yes, he gets an invitation to join the boys club.
I even considered doing something highly inappropriate, so I would have something in common.
This is the answer.
Well if a person can get in with MAGA all bad behavior is not only ignored it’s celebrated
Let’s be honest about this. It’s not just Kevin. It’s the major studios and his management team. Kevin Spacey was once a hugely bankable star. Hollywood and the talent system does not want to lose that bankable money. so they are following the roadmap laid out by so many disgraced stars before him. They lay low for a little while, have a mea culpa, then try to reenter the industry like nothing happened. Nothing would make Hollywood Studios happier than to see Kevin regain his past bankable glory.
I find this interesting because the same MAGA crowd is virulently anti-gay. Spacey came out as gay or at least bi around the time Spacey apologized on Twitter for his alleged sexual advances on Anthony Rapp, 14 at the time.
Rapp later sued and lost, but Spacey’s admission of gayness was one of the additional things that fell out of it.
So if he’s sucking around for redemption in the MAGA crowd, he may find their lack of enthusiasm less than heartening.
Makes sense for him to start his redemption tour focused on his base, people who not only allow but actively support pedophilia.
Don't you feel good about yourself. He's fine. This is just a straight person's perspective. And don't WeLL AchhAlLY because you just don't get it
I like how you completely glaze over the fact that he was aquitted and found not liable for anything.
Yeah so I am MAGA all the way, unapologetically so. I do NOT support Kevin 'the rapist' spacey in any way shape or form. Two of his accusers 'died' before he went to trial in typical clinton fashion. He was a frequent visiter to pedo island and his claim of "I didn't abuse any girls" falls flat when we know he's into boys. Nobody wants this sick fck back that I talk to.
Wait... isn't Kevin Spacey gay? How would MAGA be endeared to him no matter what the situation? In fact, his accusation of drugging and raping innocent young men just trying to do their jobs is basically everything MAGA fears about homosexuality.
If he's looking for allies, I think he's barking up the wrong tree.
I have worked with an Assistant director who work with spacesy. He is know to touch and act very sexually flirtatious (harassment) with Young male production assistants. It was a known “secret” he tries to end up “sleeping” with them (ie. rape). On the set of house of cards he tried to convince a PA (production Assistant) to smoke a joint with him. It was laced. How do we know. Cuz the AD knew. He is a sexual predator. On and off set.
Imagine the self loathing a homosexual man must feel to align themselves with the conservative right for self preservation.... Assuming a predator like this has normal feelings.
FOX Nation seems to be the app where this thing is gathered in one place. I see ads for it during NFL games and there is always a feature showing Paula Dean and episodes of COPS
How do they feel about him being both gay and a pedophile? They hate both of those things.
Unless I'm misremembering, I thought it was a teenage boy.
Answer: Following the leveling of sexual assault allegations against Kevin Spacey during the Me Too movement in 2017, he was charged with 9 sexual offenses in the UK and the target of a lawsuit in New York related to the allegations. He also suffered an almost complete collapse of his acting career with his removal as the star of the hit Netflix show House of Cards, his in-progress projects being cancelled, and another actor replacing him in an already finished film by completely reshooting his role. In 2022 the lawsuit found him not liable, and in 2023 he was acquitted of all the criminal charges against him following a jury trial.
Following those legal victories a number of people, including fellow celebrities, saw Spacey as vindicated and increasingly called for him to be un-cancelled and to allow him to return to the mainstream, which has resulted in an increasing number of public and media appearances. His return is controversial, however, as even if it was not found to be criminal his reported behavior has still been perceived by many as being predatory and immoral.
He was in Piers Morgan's show, I watched a bit. He was found not guilty so that should clear his name? I haven't been following the allegations at all so I don't know what other people are still unhappy about.
He grew up in an US where it was basically illegal be gay. By the nineties there was a serious taboo against "outing people" which is fine of course, especially since the consequences were much more serious back then. That said, the problem with Kevin Spacey wasn't so much that he was gay it was that everyone in NYC back then knew he was gay because he was such an infamous drunken sex pest.
‘Infamous drunken sex pest’ new band name I called it
Yep, but people will find confirmation bias to support whatever they want though and move the goalposts. Spacey's biggest L was trying to use his sexuality as politically charged cudgel though to deflect, so that's pretty much the only thing the average person who heard about it remembers like the memes that came from it. One of them I recall showed a cop pulling Kevin Spacey over:
Cop: Do you know how fast you were going?
Spacey: I'm gay.
lol
Also note what I did there, I moved the goalposts by claiming it was all just really about him being cringe even though its really not.
Goalpost means the .. goal, not the nature of your answer. You haven’t changed the goalpost (which is still talking about if/why people are unhappy about him), you just gave a (in your opinion) misleading answer.
More and more, I find that people don't find an acquittal sufficient to clear a person's name. Kinda terrifying tbh
It makes sense that for different levels of consequence we have different burdens of proof. In the US, to take away a person's human rights (e.g. lock them up) we need to be sure beyond a doubt (say, 99%). It's the greatest punishment, so it's the greatest burden of proof. To take away a person's property (i.e. sue them for damages) we need to think it's most likely the case (>50%).
Consider something is that is merely plausible though... say 40% likely. In that case, we don't have the ability to take that person's rights/property because we require a higher burden of proof for that, but that's still a very high likelihood and certainly can be a rational basis for deciding what we will choose to give that person (jobs, support, friendships, loyalty, trust, etc.) Unlike the justice system which must be black and white and end with a permanent, unambiguous judgement, in the real world we have the ability to allow unknown things to remain ambiguous and to continue considering both possibilities. If some guy has a 49% chance he's a child rapist, the courts may ideally / by design let him off, but that doesn't mean it's rational or necessary for me to do away with the knowledge that there is a 49% chance that he is a child rapist. When somebody says, "it's only plausible that he's a child rapist, it's not more likely than not" that's isn't (and shouldn't) be sufficient for me to say "okay then he's 100% cleared and can watch my kids."
That all said, I know very little about the Kevin Spacey situation, so I'm not clear what the evidence, likelihood, etc. is. I'm just saying that it's rational, necessary and good that public and societal perception of somebody can be more nuanced than the legal system must be. While it can lead to bad situations, it can also be a necessary and good thing.
OJ got aquitted.
OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony were both acquitted.
The reverse can be said as well, where a conviction on 34 counts of felonies doesn't mean that you are guilty of anything....
Because it's not. It's just enough not to be punished by the government.
He was on acquitted on 9 charges in a UK court. Now a lot of people will throw out the idea that acquittal does not equal not being guilty which yeah that is true on a surface level, OJ was acquitted for example. But if you actually look at the trial…well it wasn’t great for Spacey’s accusers. His defense team kinda torched a majority of the accusers. Spacey’s team had contradictory evidence against them, they straight up caught an accuser deleting potentially exonerating evidence, the whole thing was just not good for the accusers.
Now there are plenty of stories about Spacey that never got court, imo if there’s this much of smoke there has to be fire somewhere, but if there is it hasn’t come out yet.
If your standard for being able to enjoy art is that the artists and creators involved all not be immoral or have behaved immorally in some respect, you're going to have very very very little art to pick from in the world.
Doesn’t mean that consumers should make choices and consume products they think are immoral. No reason to be nihilistic about it.
Kevin Spacey did something bad and we know what he did. No reason to allow him to work as an actor or consume whatever projects he lands.
Do I consume products that have bad people behind them? Most likely. When I learn about that fact, I don’t have to continue consuming it.
Edit: changed amoral to immoral
Don't you mean "immoral" here? "Amoral" means "without morals".
In fact I mostly prefer companies that make things unrelated to morals e.g. toilet paper to not take moral stands on things.
Yeah that’s a mistake. Thanks for the correction.
*some* accountability from the wealthy is nice now and again
Yes, he was able to get away with assaulting people for years because of his art. We should celebrate that.
I've only got a little bit of a taste for what the legal process is behind those doors, I don't think what we consider "innocent" or "guilty" is exactly what the legal system say it is. being not liable could mean anything, like they weren't able to prove is was sober during this time or the legal battle for the victims where too expensive and they just dropped out (even if what they said was true). There's always two legal systems, one for the rich and one for the poor. 9 accusations for me is enough to be revolted by a person. IMO
well the legal system (either criminal or civil) rarely, extremely rarely, ever finds anyone innocent. they just find the allegation to not have been proven to whichever legal standard it has to meet. and in criminal law, there is a presumption in the eyes of the law that anyone not found guilty is deemed to be innocent.
The other side of this is that the only way falsely accused people have to clear their name is through the legal system. If I happened to find myself in that situation, I would hope people in my personal and professional life wouldn't consider me forever tarnished simply for being accused, but instead would consider that my prevailing in two separate trials would settle the matter.
I don't really know anything about the Spacey case, but speaking generally, trial by profit-driven media and sentencing by mob mentality Twitter is very scary to me. It's a one-two punch that has the potential to trample all over the rights of the innocent.
I completely agree, I wouldn't want that ether. ( I mean for anyone) but then you hear the testimony of some of the victims and you have to wonder if they all made that up of its there's truth to it. That's 9 people coming forward and maybe more still silent. They can't all be making that up for money, can you imagine going trough all that legal stuff if you just made that up? The reason some people back down is when they run out of money.
I knew this guy during this me too movement thing, I don't know if you saw that or that was just it my city, but there was a list going around with names of people who where being accused of rape grooming and harassment and other things like this, a few guys I knew where named, but this one guy was named like 7 times, all by underage girls and this guy was pushing 50, always dating very young girls and would often use peer pressure to get girls to go out with him, like make a post on fb (since he was a DJ) a lot of people knew him. SO anyways, once his name was out I was like "oh right, I always suspected it but never dawn on me until now" I also read a post a girl made and I believe her, he raped her when she was sleeping at 14 or 15 she was so scared of retaliation, even today, since the guy knew a lot of people. He did this over and over, he's extremely pushy with girls, at the time it was kinda excusable since no one said anything, but today I know better.
found the list but it's no longer available, maybe with the way back machine or something
https://dissonnom.wordpress.com/ (it means say his name) I understand it's all hearsay and completely illegal to post names like this, one ex girlfriend can ruined your name, but lets be honest, 7 times for the guy in my city and 9 times for spacey? I'm inclined to believe the victims, even if only one tells the truth, Spacey has a lot of money to make this go away. I don't mean to say people should go to prison for being accused multiple times, but we can stop buying their shit and call them out on their behavior. I can't remember where I read one testimony but the one I know about is form Anthony Rapp when he was 14. I believe him.
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Ouch, as a writing critique that one hurts. No AI was involved, top level answers in this sub are supposed to be as unbiased as possible so I was trying to keep a fairly neutral tone.
Oh no, you misunderstood. I was struck by how even handed the summary was so I thought it was done artificially. You actually did a really good job!
It's a thing now. I had to show an insanely smart high school senior how to show proof of work in the various Doc applications. She had a couple colleges ask, because she writes perfect.
How would proof of work actually work when you can just type an AI-created text into your separate 'for proof' document manually?
I'm too old to be cheating nowadays, but was good at finding loopholes etc. When I was in school before all these new methods came about, so genuinely curious how you prevent something like that?
I think you came off as pretty neutral, which is rare here, so thanks.
it's not your fault, people are furiously feeding anything good into an AI hoping and praying it'll eliminate the need to pay a few more people
apparently it's a hellscape grading school/academic papers nowadays
It doesn't sound like an AI wrote it, this person just doesn't understand people can write concisely. If it were AI written it would have gone on tangents unrelated to the topic or used superfluous words that weren't necessary, which you did not
Exactly what an AI pretending to be human would say...
Succinct writing isn't an automatic proof of AI.
Unbiased on Reddit can feel like it. They did such a good job at sticking to facts and letting the reader decide where the moral judgement should be.
Question: @OP, Why did you write aquitted in quotes?
Answer: Comeback tour
Supplemental answer: He’s broke as shit from defending himself in these lawsuits and needs money.
Is this speculation (that he’s broke) or did you learn this from somewhere. It may be true but I could just as easily see him being a narcissist who just wants to be back in the spotlight.
I saw it in the Piers interview where he said that, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s not totally dry. However, lawsuits are expensive as shit, and I’m sure it being as high profile as it was didn’t help.
Lawsuits yes, plus there’s speculation that he’s had several very costly settlements along the way as well.
One of the few clips I saw of Spacey with Piers was Spacey saying he's almost broke.
IIRC he successfully sued for his attorney's fees
question: DAE see the same thing going on with Draymond Green?
Spacey is hawking some telecom, and now Green is shilling for something or other
What did green do? Totally missed that
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nbamemes/s/ZiR8sMH1WL
He just seems to be getting in the spotlight more to improve his image. His latest kerfuffle was when he hit Nurkic in the face
Noticed the same thing, this is the first time I’ve seen someone else say it