Commons:Deletion requests/File:President Nixon meets with China's Communist Party Leader, Mao Tse- Tung, 02-29-1972 - NARA - 194759.tif

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:President Nixon meets with China's Communist Party Leader, Mao Tse- Tung, 02-29-1972 - NARA - 194759.tif

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It's a fake picture. I don't know whether US or PRC made it. Please refer:

芄蘭 (talk) 14:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's not fake, but there was a person in the background who was edited out, obviously. The NARA source page states: Copied from a third party source during President Nixon's trip to China. Photograph appears on the front page of the People's Daily (Renmin Ribao 人民日报), No.2 Jintai Xilu, Chaoyang District, Beijing 100733, People's Republic of China. Email: [email protected]. Tel. +86-10-65363689. Fax +86-10-65363688. From issue dated February 22, 1972. So, should not have been uploaded.  Delete unfortunately. Will be PD in China in 2023. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:41, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


The unedited photo has been uploaded at File:Mao Zedong, Zhang Yufeng et Richard Nixon.jpg. It claims a U.S. source as well, probably erroneously based on this file, but has a Chinese watermark. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:44, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have any specific knowledge of this image, since it was uploaded by bot and this is the first I am looking at it specifically. As it was uploaded almost 10 years ago, and I no longer work at the US National Archives, I'm not exactly sure what happened here. Most likely, this was originally marked "Unrestricted" at the time of uploaded, but was changed at some time in the ensuing years to "Undetermined," as it appears now. Possibly a bot bug, but hard to tell, and if so, I haven't seen similar issues over the years. As such, unless anyone has a strong argument otherwise (but I doubt it, since I trust Carl's assessment above), I agree it should be deleted. Note, though I did the upload on behalf of NARA, I'm not speaking for NARA anymore in that assessment. Dominic (talk) 15:06, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, makes sense -- most likely NARA updated their information since then, and it met the criteria for the bot at the time. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:47, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I thought once an image was released unrestricted, that release could not be revoked. Isn't that what Commons applies to uploads by ordinary users? But there's a procedural point here: the nomination wants to delete it because it's a fake. That's not a valid reason, is it? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:16, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If it was released by the copyright owner, correct it can't be taken back. If there was a mistake made, in that the copyright was actually owned by someone else and it was marked incorrectly, that simply means whatever license or claim was previously there was never valid, so now needs to be corrected (by deletion). Most of NARA's material was U.S. Government created, but sometimes works by third parties were mixed in, and they likely just missed this one at the time.
As for "fake", the real question is if there is any educational use -- oftentimes fake images don't have any. This isn't really "fake"; it's just been edited to remove someone in the background. It's still plenty educational, so in this case that's not a valid reason for deletion. As an international project though, there can be words lost in translation, so I'm not sure that is exactly what the nominator meant. They also mention the problem of who actually authored it, and that question was answered at the NARA source, in that the given license (PD-USGov) is not correct and I don't think any other free license can be applied. Presumably copyright is owned by the Chinese government, and the presidential party simply got a copy while they were there. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:53, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As can be seen by the pages using this file, it's an iconic picture, so Category:Undelete in 2023 should be applied here. That's the easy part. How to restore the image in 2023 to all those article seems much harder. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kept - No valid reason for deletion. The File:Mao Zedong, Zhang Yufeng et Richard Nixon.jpg is PD, so can be changed in order to erase fr:Zhang Yufeng, the companion of Mao. I think this should be discussed at the village pump. The result could be to change the image, which is used so often on wiki's, by the original version with Zhang Yufeng. That is why I ping you all: @芄蘭: @Clindberg: @Dominic: @Michael Bednarek: . Elly (talk) 21:08, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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