Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Nahuatl Wikipedia 2

This is a proposal for closing and/or deleting a wiki hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is subject to the current closing projects policy.

---

The proposal is currently open for discussion by the community.

---

• Type: 2 (non-routine proposal)
• Proposed outcome: closure
• Proposed action regarding the content: should be transferred to Wikimedia Incubator
• Notice on the project: nah:Huiquipedia:Tlecuitl#m:Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Nahuatl_Wikipedia_2
• Informed Group(s): (Which chapters, wiki projects, and other community groups have been informed, if any.)

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING

However, the current Nahuatl Wikipedia serves no purpose.
Sin embargo, la wikipedia nahuatl actual no sirve para nada, ha sido un fracaso, no hay hablantes nativos editando aquí (los pocos que escribieron aquí, fueron ignorados cuando intentaron actuar activamente en su propia lengua) y se está despreciando la riqueza lingüística de las variantes o lenguas nahuas. He escrito lo siguiente en inglés para llegar a la audiencia más grande, si usted necesita una traducción a español pidalo antes de votar.

Previous Approach. Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Nahuatl Wikipedia

1. There are over 6000 articles. Created in Psedo-Classical Nahuatl by a handful of people whose self-ranking as speakers on Nahuatl is either nah-1 or nah-0, the majority of these articles are no more than two sentences long. Should we really allow such a huge Wiki written entirely by people who acknowledge (!!!) that they have such low abilities in the target language?
2. The current Wiki is written in Classical Nahuatl. en:User:Maunus, a linguist specialising in Nahuatl has testified (see nah:User talk:Battroid) that Classical Nahuatl is almost completely impossible to understand for modern native speakers of Nahuatl. This means that it is only readable to people who have studied Classical Nahuatl in universities, which would likely amount to no more than several hundred people, all of whom are likely to be much more fluent in Spanish and may not even have fluency in Classical Nahuatl. It is like writing a Wikipedia in Phoenician -- almost nobody knows the Classical language (although over 1 million speak the modern language).
3. In the current version of the ISO standard, nah is a language group rather than a single language. It is not the proper code for Classical Nahuatl. The proper code for the language variety used in this Wiki is nci. If this Wiki is kept, it does not belong at the current domain.
4. The current contributors seem very poorly informed about Native issues. One user in particular, a 15-year-old going by the name of "Fluence", has stated that there are no Natives left in Mexico and that they have been assimilated by mestizaje (mixing by marriage), despite the fact that the recent Mexican national census showed that 8% of the population of that country is full-blooded Native. This user says that he likes the language because it shows what Nahua culture used to be 600 years ago which apparently admirable, while everything since then is apparently irrelevant.
5. No native speakers nah:User:Fluence, nah:User:Marrovi, nah:User:Ricardo gs, nah:User:Akapochtli, nah:User:Battroid, nah:User:Cuaitl, nah:User:Varlaam.

1. Native speakers nah:User:Tepoxteco, nah:User:Teòtlalili.

Second Approach.

This category includes languages contained within the collection of languages known as the Nahuatl languages, ISO code nah. Unlike Spanish, English or Japanese, there is no single "Nahuatl language". Rather, what are described as "the Nahuatl languages" are a collection of related languages spoken in Mexico and Central America.

The Nahuatl languages consist of more than only Classical Nahuatl. Classical Nahuatl, ISO code nci, which was spoken and written in Spanish colonial period, is now extinct as a spoken language. Although there are no longer native speakers, there is an extensive existing literature written in Classical Nahuatl.

Modern Nahuatl languages (by some opinions, dialects) are living languages that are in some cases in the process of disappearing. The group working here in Incubator wants to make living Nahuatl languages known and available to all persons. This group does not feel that the existing Nahuatl Wikipedia (Huiquipedia) accomplishes this objective, as it is written in a combination of Classical and living Nahuatl languages using a standard orthography not necessarily correct in all Nahuatl dialects.

Nahuatl languages	Code ISO	Ranking	Metawiki
Central Huastec Nahuatl	nch	1	0%
Central Nahuatl	nhn	2	0%
Pipil (Nawat)	ppl	3	0%
Classical Nahuatl	nci	4	0%
Northern Puebla Nahuatl Wikipedia	ncj	0	0%
Orizaba Nahuatl	nlv	0	0%
Michoacán Nahuatl	ncl	0	0%
Temascaltepec Nahuatl	nhv	0	0%
Durango Nahuatl	nln	0	0%

To pass all small articles or stubs edited in Nahuatl Wikipedia (nah) to Incubator projects in diferent Nahuatl languages. Is very necessary to invite Nahuatl languages native speakers for Incubator projects, where we can to open various Nahuatl languages wikipedias.

Third Approach.

It is necessary to be respectful with the native speakers of the Nahuatl languages, it is not necessary to have a wikipedia in Nahuatl to revitalize a language in the process of extinction. We know that many Mexicans want a wikipedia of a language and our country, but unfortunately this wikipedia is not edited by true native speakers, only by fans of Nahuatl and Mexican Mestizo sysops, which does not really help at all read bad articles that do not understand the real speakers native people.

True native speakers have no control of Wikipedia in Nahuatl as their language, in their communities haven't selfish and petty values as blocking, verifying, blocking editions, eliminating editors or competing; these are not values of indigenous people, but they are values come from Mexican Mestizos that copy the same system of the wikipedia in Spanish.

The control of the Mexican mestizo on Wikipedia in Nahuatl has very annoying native speakers, they have not liked that the Mexican mestizos control this language, which has distorted the proper sense of their ancestral knowledge with articles as well nah:Gustavo Adolfo Becquer or nah:Nemachiyōtīlli:Calīxatl:Āxcāncāyōtl, they do not like that the Mexican mestizos do business with a language that belongs to the Nahuatl communities and that also provides of this obtaining particular benefits. Mexican mestizos must to help, don't control an Amerindian language with bad articles and bad stubs soported only in old Classical Nahuatl books. Nahuatl wikipedias must to be soported by modern Native speakers with diferent grammar rules used in their schools, universities and indigenous counsils as INALI or Asociación de Escritores de lenguas indígenas A.C.

Support deletion

1. Support delete. Nahuatl Wikipedia, don't edit by Native speakers, in this Wikipedia edit only Mestizo sysops and foreing people (no Mexicans), the articles don't understand by Native speakers from Puebla, Veracruz, Hidalgo, Guerrero, Durango, San Luis Potosí, Tabasco, Michoacán, México, Morelos and Mexico City. Nahuatl language is a Macro-language, no a specific language.--Marrovi (talk) 08:38, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Oppose deletion

1. Oppose. I believe the proposal of closing is again about the writing system instead of the content and quality of the contentent. If that's the problem it has been proposed to move nah to nci; also it had been used tabs to add the different dialects. I don't get what's the relevance of the contributor's mestizo background, indigenous and mestizos people are both hiers, fully or partially, of a common ancestry and both groups had influenced each other's culture and language through time. If the issue is about not having nci native speakers, ang, got, la and cu neither have native speakers. To close the nah wikipedia would mean to loose the valuable work and efforts of the users that believe in this project. --Ricardo gs (talk) 21:57, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
2. Muy en contra. Los proyectos de la WMF buscan abrir los contenidos no cerrarlos. El punto debería hacer accesible los recursos digitales a todo el mundo; qué nuevos editores, no importando su origen, puedan aportar; consensuar todos los cambios en pro del proyecto. Mostrar la diversidad del idioma será muy enriquecedor al indicar la variante en que esta escrita pero no veo adecuado el crear diferentes wikipedias para el nah como no veo una necesidad de wp para el español de Norte , Centro, Sudamérica, España u otras regiones. petrohs (gracias) 22:51, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
3. Oppose - En contra. My comments below in the section "Doubts with proposal". --Salvador (talk) 00:07, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Comments

The Nahua languages are life languages, Native speakers are 1 million in Mexico, they must to control all editions, ortography, sintaxis and administration, we (Mexican mestizos) only must to help their editions. Many Nahua speakers are in bad conditions, don't have got laptops, computers, internet in their homes, a small elite of Nahua speaker (Nahua people with high studies in universities) no active users in Wikipedia--Marrovi (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Notified locally. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:10, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

• Comment. @Marrovi: I know how strongly you feel about this, as we have discussed such on Incubator. However, you need to understand the following:
  • Your history, in general and on that wiki, doesn't give this proposal a great deal of credibility to an outside observer.
  • Ordinarily, policy on a project like this is that as long as its content is legitimate, it will stay open. It was created before the current language policy was adopted, which means that even if can only be read by Classical Nahuatl scholars, it would stay open, just as a project like Latin Wikipedia would stay open.
  • The only grounds on which you could potentially have this wiki closed would be if you can get a bona fide professor who is expert in these languages to testify that this wiki is not in correct Classical Nahuatl (or any other correct Nahuatl language). If this is not really true (and it doesn't seem to be), this project is unlikely to be closed.
  • It is extremely difficult to move a wiki, e.g., from nah.wikipedia.org to nci.wikipedia.org. If we can ever get that fixed, then possibly this wiki could be moved. (You could potentially open a phabricator task on that.) But if this is really in nci, why is there a project at incubator:Wp/nci? Shouldn't we delete it or merge it into the current nah:? StevenJ81 (talk) 20:16, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
• Also, please notify Wikimedia Mexico. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I am an expert in these languages, though not a professor, but I can state that most of the content is not in correct classical Nahuatl - and that the neologisms invented by non-native speakers are not immediately intelligible or helpful for native speakers or experts in classical nahuatl. Nevertheless, I think the better solution would be for all non-native speaking editors to simply back out and let the native speakers take over the wiki and refashion it in the way that most serves their needs. And then for wikimedia to do some serious outreach efforts to recruit native speaking editors in Mexico. Maunus (talk) 06:31, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Good enough for starters, anyway. I'm not sure what LangCom will want to do. The rules on WMF projects generally allow "anyone" to edit. I'm going to be in touch with LangCom shortly to ask it to start addressing this proposal. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Are you sure that all content is Classic Nahuatl?, that publishers are really experts in Nahuatl languages? Are you sure there are no words invented by Mexican mestizo editors and not by native language editors? I understand the Classical Nahuatl and I can tell you that much content is laughable and is not an academic Nahuatl or a Nahuatl understood by true Nahuatl speakers and academics. And about the expulsion was a revenge of a certain person who set up a war for courage, he is not Native speaker, there is the record so that people can read it. (Notes: Requests for comment/Global ban for user Marrovi, Talk:Requests for comment/Global ban for user Marrovi, en:Talk:Teotlalpan) --Marrovi (talk) 20:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

1. Native speakers nah:User:Tepoxteco, nah:User:Teòtlalili (only editors with native language, have stopped editing here due to disappointment of a project misdirected towards the indigenous peoples, to see Huiquipedia works as a bad copy of Wikipedia in Spanish that only publish Spanish-speakers.)--Marrovi (talk) 21:01, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Navive speakers (Mexican natives in Huiquipedia)

These articles was edited by Native speakers in Nahuatl languages.

Tepoxteco's articles (Navive speaker in Huastec Nahuatl language and Classical Nahuatl)

nah:Benito Juárez, nah:Mazatl, nah:Xantoloh, nah:Ichmorral, nah:Xacoh, nah:Pahpatla, nah:Ilimonaria, nah:Otomih, nah:Chacha, nah:Tepozteco, nah:Juan Rulfo, nah:Chapictlan, nah:Ahuatenno, nah:Tecomate, occequin.

Teotlalilli's working (Native speaker in North Puebla Nahuatl language)

nah:Tlapalèwilistli: ¿Kèn nikchìwàs?

Teotlalilli's working

No native speakers (Mexican mestizos in Huiquipedia)

These articles and works belong to the editors, many things do not have a foundation in the Nahuatl language, they are personal interests of the editors without help to the proper education of the Nahua people or indigenous education and academic education. If there is any doubt about the Nahuatl words, you can check words in this pretty accredited dictionary about classical Nahuatl. Gran diccionario náhuatl, UNAM. or Dictionnaire de la langue Náhuatl Classique.

Akapochtli's articles.

(Akapochtli's glossary nah:Anexo:Vocabulario)

nah:Teomatiliztli, nah:Xōchitl, nah:Xōchihcualli, nah:Izhuatl, nah:Tlanelhuatl, nah:Tzīncuauhyōtl, nah:Cueyatl, nah:Tocatl, nah:Cōātl, nah:Teōmatiliztli; nah:Cristianyōtl, nah:Catolicismo Romano, nah:Iglesia Ortodoxa, nah:Ismamismo

Cuaitl's articles.

(Cuaitl's dictionary nah:Tehtlahtol, nah:Tehtlahtol 2, nah:Tehtlahtol 3)

nah:Jesucristo, nah:María Ichpōchtli, nah:Jose itech Nazaret, nah:Miguel de Cervantes, nah:Emilio Salgari, nah:Nezahualcoyotl (tlahtoani), nah:Geronimo, nah:Juan Ramon Jimenez, nah:Gustavo Adolfo Becquer, nah:Ramon Maria del Valle-Inclan, nah:Luis itech Leon, nah:Juan itech Torquemada, nah:Jeronimo de Mendieta, nah:Agustin itech Hipona; nah:Tototen, nah:Huitzquimichin, Chichini, nah:Hueyimichin, nah:Chichihualli, nah:Andrés de Olmos

Battroid's articles.

nah:Cristina Fernández de Kirchner; nah:Xapon, nah:Afganistan

Fluence's articles.

nah:Reik, nah:Maná, nah:Keane, nah:Pianotli rock, nah:Queen, nah:Franz Liszt, nah:Metro Hidalgo, nah:Audi

Marrovi's articles.

(Marrovi's dictionary [1])

• nah Huiquipedia.

nah:Caxtillan, nah:Judaísmo, nah:Yancuic Mexihco, nah:Santa Fe Analco, nah:California, nah:Tequixquiac, nah:Tlahtohcayotl Mexihco, nah:Atemaxac, nah:Madrid, nah:Cuetlaxcoapan, nah:Tlacametl, nah:Altepetl Cuauhtemallan, nah:Monterrey, nah:Mazatl, nah:Ezxocotl, nah:In Vaticano, nah:Lalaxtli, nah:Yucatán, nah:Huaxyacac, nah:Michhuahcan Ocampo, nah:Huiquipedia:Náhuatl para hispanohablantes, nah:Mexihco, nah:Alemania, nah:Tlacetililli Tlahtohcayotl Ixachitlan, nah:Italia, nah:Francia, nah:Ocelotl, nah:Mexihco ihuahpacayo, nah:Caxtillan ihuahpacayo, nah:Polonia, nah:Altepetl Mexihco, nah:Cuauhnahuac, nah:Argentina, nah:Brasil

Ricardo sg's articles.

nah:Nāhuatlahtōlli, nah:Āmantēcayōtl, nah:Axcancayotl, nah:Nehnencācītlalli.

Comment this section affects 3 sysop of nahwiki: @Akapochtli, Battroid, and Ricardo gs: --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:19, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Incubator Nahuatl languages

incubator:Wp/nci and incubator:Category:Wp/nci Classical Nahuatl in Incubator.

It's a new oportunity for to start an academic articles in this death language understood only by academics, Classical Nahuatl students and professors.--Marrovi (talk) 23:27, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

incubator:Wp/nch and incubator:Category:Wp/nch Huastec Nahuatl in Incubator.

incubator:Wp/nhn and incubator:Category:Wp/nhn Central Nahuatl in Incubator.

incubator:Wp/ppl and incubator:Category:Wp/ppl Pipil (Salvadoran Nahuat) in Incubator.

Doubts with proposal

Unfortunatelly I have no option but being suspicious of this proposal. Marrovi has a long history of manipulation and misbehavior in Wikimedia. He uses versions of Wikipedia for selfpromotion (Note that he inserted above a link to "Marrovi's dictionary" that doesn't have any relation with this proposal) and in my opinion his intention on closing nah.wikipedia is more related to the fact he is banned from such project and not the noble porpouses and worries about native speakers. IMHO he doesn's want a restart for the project but for him. The differences between classic and contemporary nahuatl is and old discussion that exceeds Wikipedia and have their roots in the reconstruction of ancient nahuatl that made the antropologist and linguists since the last decades of XIX century separated from the evolution of nahuatl developed by native speakers. Nevertheless it seemed that wasn't a problem when Marrovi was an active editor in Nahuatl Wikipedia, why now is more relevant than in the past? Is well known that Marrovi has personal problems with the rest of users on that version of the encyclopedia, I would like to hear the opinion of such users first. Unless better arguments are developed or a general consensus inside the nah.wiki community is shown, I oppose to this proposal. --Salvador (talk) 20:00, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

The user Marrovi has always complained about the writting system, but he continued to contribute using his own writting as it was agreed. And when some controversy about any topic took place he took the users arguments as personal attacks although it was merly about the matter being discussed. And yes, he used huquipedia for selfpromotion[2]. --Ricardo gs (talk) 22:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Salvador you are the less indicated by opinion, you travel promoting Wikiepdia, you spend funds of foundation wikipedia, you take photos in Paris, in Montreal, in China with Wikipedians and comfortably gives an opinion that nothing has to do Huiquipedia, gives a support of a language that you do not know, you do not speak and it surely does not interest you, you only think to go against me and cause more controversy without defending the language for the mother speakers. I do not think that you are interested in providing funds or managing funds for indigenous languages ​​in which donors and publishers are native speakers, taking control of their own language in the same way they would in other wikipedias, Catalans controlling and opining on Wikipedia in Catalan, Did you get the message, or was I not clear? I have not seen their travels around the world take the mother speakers to speak about their Nahuatl languages ​​and give their opinion of the future of their languages ​​with the technologies of the 21st century. Is it difficult for them to go to Wikipedia events? Why do they exclude and give credit to Spanish-speaking people as diffusers of the Nahuatl languages? You live in Mexico and you know the strong deficiencies and discrimination suffered by our countrymen with native mother tongue, and the little indigenous elite is scarcely taken into account and they are not allowed to take the reins of their language in international affairs. If in the next events you are able to take you Nahua speakers or indigenous languages speakers to your trips of wikipedia, I give the reason and I retract about it, they are also Mexican the native people and they have the right to comment on Huiquipedia ¿Or not?. --Marrovi (talk) 03:53, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Salvador tu eres el menos indicado opinar, tu viajas promocionando Wikiepdia, gastas fondos de fundación wikipedia, te sacas la foto en Paris, en Montreal en China con wikipedistas y cómodamente das una opinión que nada tiene que ver Huiquipedia sabiendo las desigualdades existentes entre tú y los hablantes de las lenguas nahuas, das un apoyo de una macrolengua que no conoces, ni hablas y seguramente ni te interesa, solo opinas para ir en contra mía y causar más polémica sin defender las lenguas para los hablantes maternos. No creo que te interese aportar fondos económicos o gestionar fondos para las lenguas indígenas en las que los donantes y editores sean hablantes nativos, llevando ellos el control de su propia lengua de la misma forma que lo harían en las demás wikipedias, catalanes controlando y opinando sobre la Wikipedia en catalán ¿entendiste el mensaje, o no fui claro?. No he visto que a sus viajes por el mundo se lleven a los hablantes maternos para que hablen sobre sus lenguas nahuas y den opinición del futuro de sus idiomas con las tecnologías del siglo XXI ¿Es difícil que ellos vayan a los eventos de Wikipedia? ¿Por qué los excluyen y dan crédito a gente hispanohablante como difusores de las lenguas nahuas? Tú vives en México y conoces las fuertes carencias y la discriminación que sufren nuestros paisanos con habla materna indígena, y la poca élite indígena es escasamente tomada en cuenta y no se les deja tomar las riendas de su lengua en asuntos internacionales. Si en los próximos eventos eres capaz de llevarte hablantes de lenguas indígenas a tus viajes de wikipedia, te doy la razón y me retracto, también son mexicanos los pueblos originarios y tienen derecho a opinar sobre Huiquipedia ¿O no?.--Marrovi (talk) 03:45, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Nahuatl is not language, is a Macro-language, Mestizo people don't understand it, Mestizo mind is different to Nahua mind.--Marrovi (talk) 03:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Petrosh; el español del norte es un acento, más no una lengua diferente. Con las lenguas nahuas no pasa lo mismo, hay variantes nahuas que no son inteligibles entre sí, esa ha quedado muy bien explicado por lingüistas y expertos en lenguas nahuas. Pensar en español no es lo mismo que pensar en náhuatl, ese es un grave error de mestizos mexicanos respecto a las lenguas indígenas de nuestro país; mestizos mexicanos y mexicanos indígenas si somos paisanos, pero no pensamos igual, nuestras comunidades son dos mundos distintos, por ende esa es causa suficiente para replantear todo y hacernos a un lado los mestizos para dejar que los mexicanos de los pueblos indígenas tomen las riendas de su lengua y ellos encausen sus propios principios éticos y morales, los cuales no son equivalentes a los nuestros; si algunas vez has visitado una comunidad indígena te darás cuanta que nada tiene que ver con la forma de vida de un citadino, allá no hay competencias, vanidades, bloqueos, obstáculos de aprendizaje, envidias o sabotajes, eso no forma parte de principios de los pueblo indígenas, esa es herencia española, más no enseñanzas indígenas. Las comunidades indígenas son pobres, pero son eso, COMUNIDADES, donde todos son parte de uno solo y tienen que hacer a un lado los malos valores para vivir plenamente de forma comunitaria, allí hay tequio (todos trabajan para la comunidad), allí hay obligaciones y normas, allí cuando una persona muera todos verdaderamente lo sienten sin decir ninguna palabra, pero no hay descalificaciones, guerras sucias, complots o sabotajes como los habitantes de grandes ciudades que se pelean entre hermanos hasta por quedarse con un pedazo de tierra.--Marrovi (talk) 04:09, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Both of them no Nahuatl speakers, Mexican people is not synonym of Indigenous people.--Marrovi (talk) 04:29, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Si no les interesa los pueblos indígenas, por lo menos sean respetuosos con ellos, dejen que ellos tomen partido de su propia lengua, ustedes y yo no somos nadie para tomar partido sobre la lengua náhuatl ¿No leyeron a Maunus? Aquí no se trata de hacer una guerra contra mi, no basta con una wikipedia en náhuatl para revitalizar una lengua, los hablantes maternos deben tomar decisión de su lengua ¿Ustedes tienen ese poder, dado por las comunidades nahuas?, ¿Ustedes tienen autorización de opinar sobre ellos?, ¿Acaso ustedes les comparten viajes y fondos económicos a las comunidades nahuas para editar Huiquipedia? ¿O simplemente quieren sacar provecho de las comunidades indígenas? Ya estamos en siglo XXI, hay que respetar a los hablantes maternos de la lenguas indígenas, son ellos los que deben decidir.--Marrovi (talk) 03:01, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Ricardo gs What dou you mean about it? gl:Usuario:Atobar and gl:Alejandro Tobar It's good or no good?.--Marrovi (talk) 03:09, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Ricardo gs. If you really love the Nahuatl laguages, do not destroy it with your invented neologisms, or try to impose a dead language that you have not structured correctly, love the work your Nahua brothers do with living languages and do not be foolish to impose on the world community that reads Wikipedia an artificial language that only you understand, let the mother speakers write their language as they want, it is their language, more not yours or mine; let them also administer their language, they are the speakers not you or me. We learn to respect others, we must be behind them forward of them, don't giving them indications.--Marrovi (talk) 04:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Ricardo gs. Si deveras amas a las leguas náhuatl, no la destruyas con tus neologismos inventados, ni trates de imponer una lengua muerta que tampoco la has estructurado de forma correcta; ama el trabajo que hacen tus hermanos nahuas con las lenguas vivas y no seas necio de imponerle a la comunundad mundial que lee Wikipedia una lengua artificial que solo tú entiendes, deja que los hablantes maternos escriban su lengua como ellos quieran, es su lengua, más no tuya o mia; deja que también ellos administren su lengua, son ellos los hablantes no tú o yo. Aprendamos a respetar a los demás, nosotros debemos estar atrás de ellos no adelante de ellos dándoles indicaciones.--Marrovi (talk) 04:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Tel tlamelauhcan in tlein quitohua in tocniuhtzin Marrovi, nochi in tlen anquicuilohuahque nican ahmo tlen monehnehuilia. Aquique totlacatcatlahtol inin tlahtolli ahmo techpactia xicchihuacan yancuic tlahtolli tlen ahmo moyectzintihtoc, tlen ahmo moyectetzontihtoc. Intla melahuac anquitlazohtlaque xicahuacan ma ticanacan tomauhco, tel ahmo ximohuehueinequican. Ca xinechtlapohpolhuican intla ahmo cualtzin onitlahto, ca tel ahmo nicnequi namechcualantiz. Teòtlalili (talk)