Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Igor Stravinsky/archive3

Igor Stravinsky

Igor Stravinsky (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 27 June 2024, 02:22 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.

• Featured article candidates/Igor Stravinsky
• Featured article candidates/Igor Stravinsky/archive1
• Featured article candidates/Igor Stravinsky/archive2
• Featured article candidates/Igor Stravinsky/archive3

• Featured article review/Igor Stravinsky
• Featured article review/Igor Stravinsky/archive1

Nominator(s): MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Back again for more with the 20th century's greatest parody artist: Igor Stravinsky. All jokes aside, his ability to blend in with so many styles and still provide a quintessentially Stravinskyian sound is amazing, and makes going through his oeuvre so exciting! Excited for everyone's comments, and thanks to those who were at the short PR before this nom. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Léon_Bakst_001.jpg needs a tag for the original work. Ditto File:Rimsky-Korsakov_Serow_crop.png
  • Fixed MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • For the first of these, life+100 wouldn't apply until after this year, and the source provided predates 2003. The other has the same pre-2003 source. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
      • The source is the from the Yorck Project, which donated 10,000 scans to wikimedia in 2005- see this email which is linked on both files, so the art itself is public domain and the scan is allowed to be used on wikimedia MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
        • Why is the art in the public domain, though? The current tagging suggests because it was not published before 2003, but the provided source is a publication before 2003. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:03, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

        Well, the only other way it would work is removing the unpublished tag entirely. The Yorck tag looks like enough to show that it's PD, since it explicitly states that the art is PD worldwide and that the reproduction is licensed under GNU. This would make the original tag unnecessary, since the Yorck tag states that the art is PD. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• File:Igor_Stravinsky_1946_(v).svg is mistagged
  • Not sure what you mean, but I may have fixed it? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

• • • Have a look at commons:Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-signature_tag#Russia? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
      • In that case, the signature is public domain and it's tagged correctly? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

• File:Stravinsky-parents_(cropped).jpg was published before 2003. Ditto File:Bakst_Diaghilev.jpg[1], File:Igor_Stravinski_6_slika_1915_žak_emil_blanš_(cropped).jpg[2], File:Vera_Stravinsky_by_Serge_Sudeikine.jpg[3]
  • Then I've no clue how to tag these. They're all very old works of art (the first being created over a century ago, same for Diaghilev) so I've no clue how they could not be public domain. What's the right tag here, because if there is a publication from before 1929 that has those images, I certainly will never find them. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

• • • What is the earliest publication you can identify? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
      • For the parents, nothing before 1929; for Bakst, nothing before 1929; for the Blanche protrait, this museum site lists the publications it was in and the earliest one is before 1929; and for vera, nothing before 1929 (the website has frustratingly little info MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• File:Katya_Stravinskaya_1907.jpg: why is this believed to be PD?
  • Taken before 1943 anonymously and the author did not later become known- PD in US because it was PD on URAA cutoff date MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

• • • The anonymous provision is for works published before 1943 - can this be demonstrated? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
      • No, it would have to be published in some Russian text and I highly doubt I can find that online MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• File:Dushkin_LCCN2014717914_(cropped).jpg: when and where was this first published? Ditto File:Igor_Stravinsky_(1962).tif
  • LOC said that there are no rights on the Bain collection, so Dushkin is free regardless of when and where (even then, Bain was a news service, so tracking it down would be very difficult). I don't know where the latter was published because I cannot access the source, since it was uploaded by someone else from the archive MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

• • • The former has PD-old-70-1923 - can its terms be verified? On the latter, can a first publication in Brazil be verified? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
      • I certainly couldn't verify it, seeing as the archive website breaks every time I open it- perhaps it works for you, but my computer is not liking it for some reason MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

• File:William_Hogarth_021.jpg needs a US tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:32, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  @Nikkimaria, some of the above ones I haven't been able to find anything about. Must these be removed, or can we safely assume that these century-old photos are not copyrighted by someone? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• We need to be able to use a tag that can be verified to be correct. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:03, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  What should be used if unpublished does not apply anf the expired tag can't be used because we don't know the first date of publication in America? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• There's not going to be a single answer there - it will depend on what can be confirmed about the image and what tag (if any) matches up with that. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Cut the questionable images and added two MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:19, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Added MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

Nikkimaria, wanted to clarify, does the image review pass? If there's anything else that needs to be cut I can try to find other replacements. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Article review

Hello! I've read through the article. Here are some points to consider:

• Vladimir Rimsky-Korsakov isn't really notable apart for being Stravinsky's friend and Nikolai's son. Remove the horrible red link!
• "Importantly, Rimsky-Korsakov agreed to personally advise..." is a split infinitive: this isn't Star Trek! " Importantly, Rimsky-Korsakov agreed personally to advise..." is better.
• "...the student began his large-scale Symphony in E-flat,[c] the first draft of which he finished in 1905. Stravinsky's first public premiere came in 1905, when the dedicatee of the Piano Sonata, Nikolay Richter, performed it..." I was confused here as was still thinking about the Symphony!
• Again, a red link: Church of the Annunciation (Saint Petersburg). Needs an article or removing.
• Renard is linked twice in two adjoining paragraphs: Remove the second link.
• Turn towards neoclassicism better The turn towards neoclassicism or Turning towards neoclassicism? (See also Turn towards serialism later.) Same Religious crisis and international touring perhaps A religious crisis and international touring? Maybe just me...
• We know what an affair is! (There are other possibly unnecessary links too like superimposed further up.)
• "...where the composer died at home on 6 April at the age of 88". No year here! (1971)

Generally the whole article is well crafted and passes all the requirements for FA: well-written, comprehensive, well-researched, verifiable with inline citations where appropriate; neutral, stable, and compliant with Wikipedia's copyright policy and free of plagiarism or too-close paraphrasing. It follows the style guidelines well and all media are appropriate and relevent. It is quite long however... Then again, he was the leading composer of his time and is extremely influential. I did tire towards the end though. Hope you get the FA! — Iadmc♫^talk  13:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for the review! On the comment about subtitled: composer articles that I referred to use subtitles in the form of "[Subject's] return to Paris", like in Debussy and Tchaikovsky. Here, it's his notable action during that period without his name preceding it: "[Stravinsky's] Turn towards neoclassicism" or "[Stravinsky's] Religious crisis and international touring". All else were fixed- thank you! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:39, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Forgot to ping Iadmc MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:40, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Got it thanks! Good luck! — Iadmc♫^talk  16:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

@Iadmc will you be supporting/opposing the promotion? Just wanted to clarify- it's all good if you're just here for comments! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Support easy — Iadmc♫^talk  21:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Support from Tim riley

I'm not quite sure how I came to miss the previous excursion of this article to FAC, but I was one of the peer reviewers this time round and commented extensively then. Rereading now for FAC I see little more to quibble about. In no particular order:

• I don't think TIME should be in caps in the caption
• The heraldic picture is of the whole arms of the family (the coat of arms is just the shield) with crest, mantle and all. Just "Arms of ..." is what you want, I think.
• "By age fourteen, Stravinsky mastered Mendelssohn's Piano Concerto No. 1" – the piano part, presumably, but it might be as well to say so.
• "the influence from Russian Orthodox vocal music and 18th-century composers like Handel were not well-received in the press…" – singular noun (influence) needs a singular verb (was).
• "the Brandenburg Concerto-like work…" I think I'd add another hyphen, between Brandenburg and Concerto, but I don't press the point.
• "Threni showed his full shift towards use of tone rows" – could do with a blue link to tone row
• " Soon after being dismissed from Lenox Hill Hospital…" – is one dismissed from hospital in AmE? (One is discharged in BrE, but I merely ask the question.)
• "Stravinsky's music is often divided into three periods of composition … where Stravinsky used highly structured composition techniques pioneered by composers of the Second Viennese School" – the second and third "Stravinsky"s in this sentence would be better, I think, as pronouns.
• I was uncertain at PR why you sometimes use the ♭ and ♯ symbols but keep referring to his (delectable) early symphony as the Symphony in E-flat. I still am. We also have "E-flat dominant 7 superimposed on an F-flat major triad" and "Piano Sonata in F-sharp minor". I'd recommend sticking either to ♭ and ♯ symbols or to words throughout.
• Initials: I believe the MoS prefers us to put a space between people's initials: T. S. Eliot rather than T.S. Eliot. You have done so for C. F. Ramuz and W. H. Auden, and I think Eliot should be treated likewise.

Nothing there to prevent my adding my support for the elevation of this fine article to FA, and I'm happy to do so. I still think it's a mean trick to put a link to a different article in the info-box, but if you must… – Tim riley talk 17:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, "discharged" from the hospital is certainly where my mind was, but I apparently didn't conjure that word... thank you for this and all the other comments! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Pseud 14

Placeholder. I will endeavor to look at this in the next couple of days (hopefully no later this week). Pseud 14 (talk) 23:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

MSinccc

• I have read the article and would like to offer suggestions for the prose. Comments will follow shortly. Regards MSincccc (talk) 07:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• Specify that Stravinsky was "of Russian descent" to provide clarity on his background without altering the flow significantly.
• Use notable for the riot it provoked at its premiere to notorious for the riot it provoked at its premiere for a more precise expression

  • After this, Stravinsky's Russian phase was followed could be changed to Following this, Stravinsky's Russian phase gave way to for better readability

• Could change adopted serial procedures to adopted serial techniques.

  • Simplify the description of his later work to avoid redundancy, such as His compositions during this period echoed elements of his earlier works.

  MSincccc (talk) 07:11, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• and Anna (née Kholodovskaya), an amateur singer and pianist from a long-established Russian family.

Only one suggestion for now. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 07:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@MSincccc, thanks for the review! For the comments about the lead: is the green text supposed to be quotes already present? I can't find "notable for the riot it provoked at its premiere" or "After this, Stravinsky's Russian phase was followed" or the others in the lead at all. Are these suggestions to change an already-existing sentence? Thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk The green ones are the suggested versions whereas the turquoise ones are the versions existing in the article. Furthermore, the sentences mentioned under the Life, Music and Artistic influences headings are the suggested ones. The suggestions have been made after consulting the Oxford English dictionary. Looking forward to your response. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 12:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@MSincccc, I'm having a difficult time understanding the comments. The first five bullet points confuse me, as none of the turquoise text quotes are actually in the lead. For the other points, I'm not sure what those are trying to replace. Could you name the exact sentences in the present version that you think should be rephrased? Thank you! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk I will be posting the remaining comments later. Sorry for the inconvenience. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 14:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

It’s all good, thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Starting from the beginning then.

Lead

• Stravinsky's Russian period was characterized... Could use "his" here as "Stravinsky" is mentioned in the preceding sentence.
• The same sentence could be rephrased as-During his Russian period, Stravinsky was notably influenced by Russian styles and folklore. Works such as *Renard* (1916) and *Les noces* (1923) drew upon Russian folk poetry, while compositions like *L'Histoire du soldat* (1918) integrated these folk elements with popular musical forms, including the tango, waltz, ragtime, and chorale.
• In 1998, Time magazine listed Stravinsky as one of the 100 most influential people of the century. "Listed" is preferable to "named" for a smoother flow. Also you could delink "magazine" in the above manner. Rest of the lead is fine as it is. Regards.

MSincccc (talk) 04:28, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Life

• The name "Stravinsky" is of Polish origin,... "Is" is preferable to "was".
• Stravinsky was born in Oranienbaum while his family vacationed there for the summer;... This version avoids repeating the phrase "was born in Oranienbaum" and also omits his first name "Igor" which need not be mentioned repeatedly. It's also more concise than the present one.
• Constantly in fear of his short-tempered father "Short-tempered" is preferable to "hot-tempered".
• There should be consistency in how the article's subject is referred to. In some places, it's "Igor," while in others, he is referred to as "Stravinsky."
  • This is intentional; just saying "Stravinsky" would be confusing since his family is also being discussed. The prose officially switches to just discussing him at paragraph 3, so the last name is used then MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• By age fourteen, Stravinsky had mastered the solo part of Mendelssohn's Piano Concerto No. 1, and at age fifteen, he completed a piano reduction of a string quartet by Alexander Glazunov. Suggested version.
• Despite his musical passion and ability, Stravinsky's parents expected him to study law at the University of Saint Petersburg, and he enrolled there in 1901. Refined sentence.
• During summer vacation of 1902, Stravinsky traveled with Vladimir Rimsky-Korsakov to Heidelberg Could omit "Vladimir" here.
  • IMO, it's needed here since the elder Rimsky is mentioned in the previous sentence- trying to avoid confusion with all the names MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• In August 1905, Stravinsky announced his engagement to Yekaterina Nosenko, his first cousin whom he had met in 1890 during a family trip. Slightly more preferable as it includes "had" before "met".
• The couple soon had two children: Théodore, born in March 1907,... Could mention at least the month given it is known.
  • Not in the cited source, nor can I find the month in the Walsh sources MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

It's mentioned here though. Regards MSincccc (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• as "the best of my works before The Firebird". Replaced "was" with "as". But the present version is also fine as it stands.

Comments up to the International fame, 1909–1920 sub-section. I will provide further suggestions later. MSincccc (talk) 04:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Preferred versions from the International fame, 1909–1920 section

• In 1907, Diaghilev presented a five-concert series of Russian music at the Paris Opera; the following year, he staged the Paris premiere of Rimsky-Korsakov's version of Boris Godunov. Changed "next" to "following".
• Stravinsky was working on Act I of his first opera The Nightingale.
• While composing The Firebird, Stravinsky conceived an idea for a work about "a solemn pagan rite: sage elders, seated in a circle, watched a young girl dance herself to death". Replaced "had" with "conceived" for a more refined version.

Illness and wartime collaborations

• In early 1914, his wife, Yekaterina, contracted tuberculosis and was admitted to a sanatorium in Leysin, Switzerland, where the couple's fourth child, Maria Milena, was born. More preferable.
• In early July 1914, while his family resided in Switzerland near his sick wife, the composer traveled to Russia to retrieve texts for his next work, a ballet-cantata depicting Russian wedding traditions titled *Les noces*. Soon after he returned, World War I began, and the Stravinskys lived in Switzerland until 1920, initially residing in Clarens and later Morges. Refined version which is clearer and avoids repeating "Yekaterina Stravinsky".

Comments up to the France, 1920–1939 sub-section. I will provide further suggestions later. MSincccc (talk) 11:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Starting from the France, 1920–1939 sub-section.

• During this period, Stravinsky expanded his involvement in conducting and piano performance. He conducted the premiere of his Octet in 1923 and served as the soloist for the premiere of his Piano Concerto in 1924. Following its debut, he embarked on a tour, performing the concerto in over 40 concerts. Refined version that is more preferable.

Religious crisis and international touring

• Stravinsky's schedule was divided between spending time with his family in Nice, performing in Paris, and touring other locations, often accompanied by de Bosset.
• Most of 1929 was spent... could be replaced with Most of that year was spent... The latter version is preferable to the former as it avoids repeating the year (1929).
• Between touring concerts, he composed the choral Symphony of Psalms, a deeply religious work that premiered in December 1930 could also be replaced with Between touring concerts, he composed the choral Symphony of Psalms, a deeply religious work that premiered in December 1930 for the same reason.
  • I'm confused about this one, since the red and green text appear to be the same sentence? I think I understand what you mean though; added 'that year' in place of 1930 MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• On 10 June 1934, Stravinsky became a naturalized French citizen, protecting all his future works under copyright in France and the United States. Is the precise date relevant in this context? If so, the sentence could be adjusted to adhere to WP:Proseline guidelines despite it not being mandatory.
• After the short run of Perséphone, Stravinsky embarked on a successful three-month tour of the United States with Dushkin;... Preferable to use "tour of the United States" to "United States tour"
• Stravinsky's last years in France from late 1938 to 1939 were marked... Could omit the phrase "from late 1938 to 1939" for a smoother flow.
  • The date is important here, as the previous sentence had no specific dates listed MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• In addition, the increasingly hostile criticism of his music in major publications and failed run for a seat at the Institut de France further dissociated him from France, and shortly after the beginning of World War II in September 1939, Stravinsky moved to the United States. Refined version which I suggest could replace the present one. It omits the phrase "the man" which comes out of nowhere(despite it being understood that we are referring to Stravinsky himself).

@MyCatIsAChonk Looking forward to your response to the above suggestions before I publish my final set of comments. It was a great read (pardon me if the list is too long to bear). Regards MSincccc (talk) 14:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

MSincccc All fixed- many thanks for the comments thus far! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Preferred versions-

• Stravinsky and Vera de Bosset were married on March 9, 1940, in Bedford, Massachusetts. After the completion of his lecture series, the couple relocated to Los Angeles, where they applied for American naturalization.
• ...and frequent guests included musicians Joseph Szigeti, Arthur Rubinstein, and Sergei Rachmaninoff.[150][147] However, Stravinsky eventually joined popular Hollywood circles, attending parties with celebrities and becoming closely acquainted with European authors Aldous Huxley, W. H. Auden, Christopher Isherwood, and Dylan Thomas. You could drop the "like" after "musicians" and "authors" for a smoother flow.
• In 1945, Stravinsky received American citizenship and subsequently signed a contract with British publishing house Boosey & Hawkes, who agreed to publish all his future works. Additionally, Stravinsky revised many of his older works and had Boosey & Hawkes publish the new editions to re-copyright his older works.[147][153] Around the 1948 premiere of another Balanchine collaboration, the ballet *Orpheus*, Stravinsky met Robert Craft in New York; Craft had asked Stravinsky to explain the revision of the *Symphonies of Wind Instruments* for an upcoming concert. Stravinsky quickly befriended Craft, inviting the latter to Los Angeles, and Craft soon became Stravinsky's assistant, collaborator, and amanuensis until the composer's death. Dropped the phrase "the young conductor" and used "latter". Furthermore, could you please reduce the number of times "Stravinsky" is mentioned in this paragraph (if possible)?
  • "The young conductor" is needed because Craft is not mentioned before this point, so the reader does not know who he is (in this case, he conducts) MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• In 1953, he agreed to compose a new opera with a libretto by Dylan Thomas... This version avoids using "Stravinsky" in each sentence thus preventing unnecessary repetition.
• in which the latter sought to correct myths surrounding him and discuss his relationships with other artists. Could use "latter".
• where he attended a dinner at the White House with then President John F. Kennedy in honor of the composer's 80th birthday.
• In September 1962, he returned to Russia for the first time since 1914, accepting an invitation from the Union of Soviet Composers to conduct six performances in Moscow and Leningrad.
• During his three-week visit he met with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and several leading Soviet composers, including Shostakovich and Aram Khachaturian.
  • Is there something to correct here? This reads the same as the prose currently stands MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • The "his" replaces "the" from the original. MSincccc (talk) 14:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@MSincccc I see now, thanks- it's been fixed MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 15:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

• Stravinsky revisited biblical themes for many of his later works.
• A funeral service was held three days later at the Frank E. Campbell Funeral Chapel. Added "the"

This concludes my list of suggestions for the Life section. I will be leaving comments for the remaining sections later. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 09:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Artistic influences

Preferred versions:

• You could also link Charles F. Ramuz.
• Their collaboration was apparently tense:...
  • I prefer to use their names, since "their" could be misunderstood as Rubenstein and Stravinsky MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

@MyCatIsAChonk Nothing more to complain about from this section. Looking forward to your response. Regards MSincccc (talk) 11:00, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Legacy

Preferred versions:

• After his death, Stravinsky's importance in modernist music became evident: though many modern styles quickly fell out of fashion (like twelve-tone music), the music of Stravinsky stood out as a body of unique ingenuity, according to Walsh.
• Béla Bartók could also be linked in the article.

Recordings

• Stravinsky received five Grammy Awards and a total of eleven nominations for his recordings, with three of his albums being inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame.

The Writings section is fine as it is. Regards MSincccc (talk) 11:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@MSincccc, all have been addressed- thank you for your thorough reading of this article! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk Suggestions for the Music section -

• Much of Stravinsky's music is characterized by short, sharp articulations with minimal rubato or vibrato.
• Stravinsky's student compositions were primarily assignments from his teacher Rimsky-Korsakov and were mainly influenced by the latter and other Russian composers.
• ...marked the beginning of his international fame and a departure from 19th-century styles.

I will be leaving my suggestions for the rest of the Music section later. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 16:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

MSincccc addressed those three MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 17:26, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

First three ballets, 1910–1913

Preferred versions:

• Stravinsky also used a folk tune from Rimsky-Korsakov's opera *The Snow Maiden*, showing the former's continued reverence for his teacher.
• Stravinsky's third ballet, *The Rite of Spring*, caused a near-riot at the premiere due to its avant-garde nature.
• He had begun to experiment with polytonality in The Firebird and Petrushka,... Avoid mentioning "Stravinsky" in consecutive sentences when its clearly understood that he is being referred to.

Russian period, 1913–1920

• The composer Béla Bartók considered Stravinsky's Russian period to have begun in 1913 with *The Rite of Spring* due to its use of Russian folk songs, themes, and techniques. Using its and also omitted "The composer" as we have already introduced Bartok in the previous section. Should it be mentioned again under the Music section
• While Stravinsky did not use as many folk melodies as he had in his first three ballets, he often used folk poetry.
• L'Histoire du soldat was composed in 1918 with the Swiss novelist Charles F. Ramuz as a small musical theatre production for dancers, a narrator, and a septet.[221] It mixed the Russian folktales in the narrative with common musical structures of the time, like the tango, waltz, rag, and chorale.[222] Even as his style changed in later years, Stravinsky maintained a musical connection to his Russian roots.
• He pointed out how the opera contained numerous references to Greek mythology and other operas like Mozart's Don Giovanni and Bizet's Carmen,...
• Stravinsky was inspired by the operas of Mozart in composing his music,...

• • I'm erring on the side of "in composing the music" because this influence really only applies to this specific music written for The Rake's Progress MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

Serial period, 1954–1968

• Agon (1954–57) should be changed to Agon (1954–1957)
• whereas the second movement from Canticum Sacrum (1956) was the first piece to contain a movement entirely based on a tone row.
• it begins diatonic,...
• The influence of other composers on Stravinsky can be noticed throughout this period. He was heavily influenced by Schoenberg,...
• In addition, he was very familiar with the works of Anton Webern,...

@MyCatIsAChonk This concludes my list of suggestions for the prose of the article. Looking forward to your response. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 08:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@MSincccc, all addressed with just one comment above MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Ligaturama

I participated in the peer review so my first tranche of comments has already been addressed. I've gone through the lead to ensure all its assertions are backed up by cited statements in the article body. I also have some miscellaneous suggestions. Nothing major, as before it looks fundamentally sound. Ref numbers taken from ID 1227368908

Lead:

• Says he was granted American citizenship in 1945, but the body only says "they moved to Los Angeles and applied for American naturalization". Walsh 2001 section 8 gives the year.
• Says the Rite brought Stravinsky "international fame", but I only see that it was an "overnight sensation" and received "widespread critical acclaim" (presumably from Parisian critics); and that his first three ballets (not just the Rite) "were the beginning of his international fame"
  • I think the way its worded further implies that it's the associated "riot" that brought him international fame, but I don't know if that's the intention
• The standard division of his works into the three periods isn't directly supported by the body, it's just implied in passing by the cited works at the beginning of the "Music" section. A a citation for "Stravinsky's music is often divided into three periods of composition:" should be a quick fix for this.
• "While many supporters were confused by Stravinsky's constant stylistic changes" - I'm not clear on how this is supported in the body.
  • In Legacy: However, many saw his subsequent neoclassical period as a return to the past while other composers tried advancing modern music.[272] His subsequent turn towards serialism further alienated him from audiences,
    • When going through it I wasn't sure if this really supported the word "confusion", but I can see what you mean and I can't think of any more appropriate descriptor myself. Ligaturama (talk) 06:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Citations to look at:

• [13] for Stravinsky receiving piano lessons: wrong page number, should be p26
• [32] I can't see this quotation at all on the page or after a search in the book
• [54] regarding Diaghilev hearing the early Petrushka drafts, should be pp35-36
• [67] relevant part appears to go on to page 45

For the record I checked all usages of the following and they seem fine: 1, 2, 4, 25, 51, 60, 63, 187, 212, 213, 214, 218, 236, 264, 265, 278.

Misc:

• "Stravinsky's compositional career is divided into three periods" - I'd say typically divided into three periods, there are bound to be academics who disagree because they're such a contentious lot.
• The link to Straus 2001 contains a search query, which means if you follow it it highlights lots of text. Remove the question mark after "f9WSc5aLd6IC" and everything after it
• "the first draft of which he finished in 1905. In 1905, the dedicatee of the Piano Sonata" - repetition of "in 1905" is a little awkward, would replace with "That year"
• "necessary to making it in the Russian music scene" - "making it" sounds quite casual, I'd put "success", and maybe replace "scene" with something more academic
• "Catherine was my dearest friend and playmate ... and from then until we grew into our marriage" - this doesn't seem to make sense unless I'm misreading it, perhaps that second "and" should be removed? I can't check on the original text per the note above
  • There was an odd grammar thing in the original text- I tried slightly rectifying it in the blockquote MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• In the "Life" section, Pulcinella is mentioned directly before the "Turn to neoclassicism" section, which is strange because it was his first neoclassical work so should be the start of that section.
  • There's a reason for this, see my reply to Tim riley at the PR: "These two sections are actually separated by Stravinsky's move to France, as Stravinsky lived in Switzerland when he traveled to Rome, but I had no other ideas for a subtitle. Noble opined that the Symphonies of Wind Instruments officially started his neoclassical era, Bartok thinks it's the Octet... really, I wrote it in this way because Pulcinella still has lots of Russian period elements, but the thematic idea was much like his neoclassical works. So this "turn towards neoclassicism" more refers to his regular use of this style in his music." MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • Oh dear, apologies for "carping or cavilling"! Ligaturama (talk) 06:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
      • No worries at all- best to be thorough than lenient around here! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
• "a capella" should not be italicised per MOS:MUSIC
• The link to "tone row" in "Turn towards serialism": the pluralising "s" has been nowiki-ed so it isn't part of the link to tone row, is there a reason for that?
  • No, just some visual editor errors (yes, I use visual editor, spare the shaming^{[just kidding]}) MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• "Between touring, the composer worked relentlessly" - "between tours" or "while touring" would seem to make more sense
• "Bartók argued that the period "really starts with his Octet for Wind Instruments, followed by his Concerto for Piano ..."" - not sure what's going on with that ellipsis, the sentence ends there.
• "but still "embody[s] the distinctive structure of a fairy tale"." - "embod[ies]", or "but still embodies "the destinctive..."
• Footnote C: "Opus" should be capitalised in "Opus 1" per MOS:MUSIC
• Footnote M needs a space before its ellipsis
• Footnote R is missing a closing bracket (parenthesis)
  • Not sure what you mean here, there is a close parenthesis at the end of the sentence for me; the content of the parentheses extends until the page numbers end) MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • My mistake, I misread it as it stops being link partway through. Apologies. Ligaturama (talk) 06:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Ligaturama (talk) 15:36, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ligaturama I deeply appreciate you going out of your way to find the correct pages for the failed spotchecks- for the giant blockquote, I put the wrong Stravinsky and Craft book, easy mistake to make when there's six to deal with! Individual replies above, all else were fixed without question MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Great, all addressed so no reason not to add my support; I believe the article meets the FA criteria. I think you've done a particularly good job on keeping it summary-style without too much or too little detail on any specific area, and accordingly it flows at a nice pace despite being a fair length. Thanks for all your work. Ligaturama (talk) 06:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your help along the way! If you open another GAN/FAC anytime soon, let me know- hopefully Liszt can make an appearance at FAC/PR sometime soon MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:00, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Comments and support from Gerda

I also participated in the peer review, and thank for changes I liked. I didn't get to details of the music section yet:

Generally, while we are requested to link each item only once, we may expect readers to be interested only in that section, and start linking again, such as Glazunov.

Student works

• I'd place the one review from a later time at the very end of that section.

First ballets

• "Stravinsky's Russian influences often used large orchestration" - I had to read it twice, - not knowing how influences can use something, and then orchestration ;)
• I believe that the antagonism of Firebird and K. can be told simpler, without repeating each character's name.
• I think "second ballet" is enough, without for whom.
• The melody by R.-K.: does the source say it is the elder's "influence"? I think it could just be a sort of reverence ;)
• I think we could speak about the third ballet without recalling the ubiquitous riot.
  • I believe it's important to mention, since one may skip straight to this section without reading 'Life'. It also shows that the work was very important to Stravinsky's career and unique in the music scene of the time. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• Why not speak about playing with atonality in the first ballets where they are covered, instead of adding the point afterwards?
  • The source did not state specific examples of how Stravinsky used polytonality in those works; White frames it as a contributing factor to The Rite's tonality MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• "the small instrumentation of traditional cantatas" - what does "traditional" mean here? Some 19th-century cantatas use large orchestra, and even some Bach cantatas, or are they not "traditional"? If the early cantatas, Italian works for one voice and a few instruments, are meant, perhaps say so, or link?
  • Yes, I think 'early' is what the source means here- reworded in prose MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

Need a break. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Neoclassical

• Why a lang-template for Così but not Don Giovanni and several others?
  • Don Giovanni and Carmen are names, so I assumed they didn't use lang templates? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• link opera repertoire to List of prominent operas?

Legacy

• The lists of names at the end look a bit like names-dropping, - perhaps say a bit more precisely what influenced individual ones.
  • The students I have no details about because they come from an encyclopedia of teachers and students. I'm not sure how to elaborate on "Stravinsky also influenced composers like Elliott Carter, Harrison Birtwistle, and John Tavener" because those three names are from a series of quotes in the source- most of them just say that Stravinsky influenced them, not necesarrily naming why or how. Carter claims that hearing The Rite inspired him to become a composer, but I'm not sure how I'd work that into the para, and it doesn't seem too relevant since I'm sure Stravinsky has inspired many to compose MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

Recordings

• link NBC?
• "the Théâtre des Champs-Élysées (where The Rite of Spring premiered)" - I see a contrast of the strictly French theatre name and the English of the ballet, which was of course premiered in 1913 as Le Sacre du printemps.
  • Well, most sources used say the english title of The Rite, but still use the french name for the theatre. This is all just based on what the sources commonly use (also, in general, I think the average reader would know the name "The Rite of Spring" but not "Le sacre du printemps") MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)

Writings

• "In 1959, several interviews between the composer and Craft were published as Conversations with Igor Stravinsky, which was followed by a further five volumes over the following decade." - a bit awkward structure, and I think it's "were published", then also "were followed", no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt, all were fixed, with some individual replies above- thank you! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, support. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

ps: In Germany, the third is so known as Le Sacre du printemps, that I looked twice when Pina Bausch staged it danced as Frühlingsopfer ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2024 (UTC)