Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fourpence (British coin)/archive1

Fourpence (British coin)

Fourpence (British coin) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 2 July 2024, 07:55 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.

• Featured article candidates/Fourpence (British coin)/archive1

Nominator(s): Wehwalt (talk) 16:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

This article is about... a coin which was never very popular, but which when brought back in the mid-19th century caused minor controversy. For some reason, it was more popular in Scotland and in British Guiana than in England and Wales, though the reasons for that lineup seem a bit obscure. Enjoy. Wehwalt (talk) 16:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Comments from RoySmith

• Not really an issue for FAC, but right now Fourpence is a redirect to Groat (coin). You probably want to make that into a WP:DAB page instead. Actually, the bigger question is why do we need both articles? Aren't they talking about the same coin?

I think groat (coin) should probably be moved to groat (English coin) which is the usual naming convention for pre-1707. I've moved that now.

• Unless it's established usage for coinage articles, I don't think the use of {{sfrac}} is a good idea. I generates something which is illegible on my phone, and doesn't look so great on my desktop either. Why not the more common 1/3?

I've switched to {{frac}}, which is commonly used in coinage articles.

• pre-Union groat see WP:SEAOFBLUE. Same with "Radical MP" elsewhere.

Both are now changed.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• Explain what "struck" means, or at least link it to some appropriate place which does explain it.

Linked to mint (facility)

• The groat was struck throughout the 18th century, though by its end... Does that mean "the end of the 18th century" or "the end of when groats were produced?"

""Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• For the latin inscriptions which contain abbreviations, you use (short for "..."). I get the desire to indicate that you are expanding abbreviations instead of just literally translating, but I find the "short for" stuff breaks up the flow for the reader. I think it might work better without those.
• I'm not convinced there. People might assume it's the literal translation.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
• What is "Snr" as in "Johann Rudolph Ochs Snr"?

As I understand it it's "senior". See MOS:SR.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• Link "obverse" and "reverse" the first time they're used; many people will not be familiar with those terms.

OK

• Groats were available by application at the Royal Mint... I don't know what most of this paragraph means. I'm assuming it make sense to somebody who is well versed in coinage, but I'm just lost. Who would be making these applications? What does "the cost of carriage" mean?

I've striven to make this clearer. As far as I can tell, anyone could go there and buy as many groats as they cared to purchase. The cost of carriage is the expense of getting the coins from London to Manchester at a time when the railways were just starting. It was more usual for the Bank of England to distribute coins to local banks and for them to reach the public that way.

• Beginning in 1838, the coin bore the portrait, by Wyon, of Queen Victoria Wyon was introduced far enough before this (in the previous section) that it's worth mentioning again who he is.

I've changed to "also by Wyon". We don't give any detail on him so that at least sends the reader back to the William IV groat.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• The threepence was one of the Maundy coins... why is this mentioned in an article about the fourpence?

The threepence replaced the groat in commerce, and in the discussion of how the Britannia groat came to be in 1836, the proposal was to take one of the Maundy coins and strike it for use in Britain. So the threepence fit the original criteria.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• The infobox images need ALT text.

That is done now--Wehwalt (talk) 19:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if I'll get around to doing a full review, so for now just consider this some random comments.

Image review by Generalissima

• File:1888 groat obverse.jpg and File:1888 groat reverse.jpg - Released into PD by Heritage, coin design PD. Not FA criteria, but it'd be nice if someone could make the background transparent here. I might do it later.
• File:1792 groat obverse.jpeg and File:1792 groat reverse.jpeg - Released into PD by heritage, coin design PD.
• File:1836 groat obverse.jpg and File:1836 groat reverse 1.jpeg - Released into PD by heritage, coin design PD.
• File:Edward I groat obverse.jpeg and File:Edward I groat reverse.jpeg - Released into PD by heritage, coin design PD.
• File:1839 groat obverse.jpeg and File:1839 groat reverse.jpg - Released into PD by heritage, coin design PD.
• File:Groat group.jpg - CC-BY 4.0

All images are relevant to the article. All have alt-text except the infobox image, which needs it. Once this is done, all will be ready.

Is there a way of getting alt text into the infobox?--Wehwalt (talk) 18:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's documented anywhere, but obverse_alt seems to work. See my sandbox for an example. RoySmith (talk) 18:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

(Also, side note: there's an error in the mintage figures. You've listed 1851 twice, and the years don't line up with the description you give in "Reaction, later issues and colonial striking" - Where's the 1857-1862 issues? Also, I'd be very interested if you could find any info on the 1850 - that's a pretty high mintage for no survivors, so there must have been some melting going on.) Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 17:50, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

The 1850 mintage was probably with dies dated 1849. I'm not coming up with anything on the 1857 or 1862, this were proof-only mintages. There was no general proof set of those years so I can't go around by trying to find the mintages of such sets. I've fixed that typo you mention.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Alt text is now added. That's everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)